Is escalating the conflict by bombing the Houthis the way to go?

Tickingbird
To Glorianny
You can protest about the Israeli government’s retaliation and I agree it’s a dreadful situation but why do you persist in this nonsense that Hamas are a legitimate government?
You may well ask.

M0nica

Its not what you do. It is the way that you do it.

It is now perfectly clear Gloryanny that you totally accept the principle that the ends justify the means.

This means that you accept that breaching the Geneva Conventions and deliberately attacking civilians raping women and girls, and dismembering babies and small ch;ldren, not to mention the kidnap of innocent vulnerable civilians are legitimate means for an armed force to use.

How low can anyone go?

As far as the Geneva Convention goes Israel has been in breach of Section 111 on Occupied Territories since 1967. Does that mean that they are permitted to do so, but Hamas are expected to conform to them?
The war crimes are terrible and the perpetrators should be brought to justice.
But the Geneva Convention also outlaws the bombing of civilian targets and specifically protects hospitals. There is also a requirement of any aggressor that they provide food, water and medical supplies to the civilian population. Israel is still failing to do this.
Nor is Gaza the only place where Palestinians are suffering.
According to recent reporting by OHCHR, there has been a sharp increase in unnecessary and disproportionate force by Israel in the Occupied West Bank, including airstrikes, violent military tactics in law enforcement and incursions by armored personnel carriers and bulldozers sent to refugee camps which have resulted in unlawful killings and damage to civilian objects. Israeli security forces also continue to conduct daily mass arrests, with thousands of Palestinians arrested. OHCHR has reported numerous incidents of alleged torture and other ill-treatment against Palestinian detainees by Israeli forces
www.globalr2p.org/countries/israel-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territory/

The Jews fought wars and won Israel 70 yrs ago and have ruled that territory ever since, when do Muslims accept that and stop fighting.
It’s all very well other opinions calling Israel “occupied territory” and Palestinians living in refugee camps it should have ended long ago. Other countries have mixed religious populations and live peacefully, why not Israel
As for Hamas taking over Gaza vowing to destroy Israel, fighting against impossible odds, not caring how many die, how has that helped Palestinians.

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

Katie59

The Jews fought wars and won Israel 70 yrs ago and have ruled that territory ever since, when do Muslims accept that and stop fighting.
It’s all very well other opinions calling Israel “occupied territory” and Palestinians living in refugee camps it should have ended long ago. Other countries have mixed religious populations and live peacefully, why not Israel
As for Hamas taking over Gaza vowing to destroy Israel, fighting against impossible odds, not caring how many die, how has that helped Palestinians.

The Israeli Supreme court refers to them as the Occupied Territories.
There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.
The West Bank is not Israel
www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/03/video-of-ultra-orthodox-jews-spitting-by-christians-in-jerusalem-sparks-outrage#:~:text=Outrage%20over%20Jerusalem%20video%20of%20ultra%2DOrthodox%20Jews%20spitting%20as%20Christians%20pass,-

To go back to the OP's question - it's not ideal but if the Houthis won't talk and we want to preserve trade and free passage on the seas there seems to be no other choice.

Glorianny

There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.

So what?

There are trouble makers and religious nut jobs in every corner of the earth.

If I took the time to bring you some facts and figures regarding how many Jews have been attacked and spat on by Muslims we both know they’d be much higher.

I don’t understand why you even mention it but you appear to be clutching at straws.

Callistemon21

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

I saw that item, and I was horrified that this kind of hate speech is happening within our University Societies along with mosques.

Our universities are being openly targeted to recruit what the Iranians call soft operatives truly worrying.

tickingbird

Glorianny

There is evidence that not only Muslims but Christians and Greek Orthodox clergy have been abused and spat on by Jewish activists in Jerusalem.

So what?

There are trouble makers and religious nut jobs in every corner of the earth.

If I took the time to bring you some facts and figures regarding how many Jews have been attacked and spat on by Muslims we both know they’d be much higher.

I don’t understand why you even mention it but you appear to be clutching at straws.

But the bombing and the attacks in the West Bank are killing Christians as well. So hardly just a few trouble makers.
www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/11/10/extinction-gaza-christians-fear-for-communitys-survival-amid-israel-war#:~:text=Only%20800%20to%201%2C000%20Christians,back%20to%20the%20first%20century.

Grantanow

To go back to the OP's question - it's not ideal but if the Houthis won't talk and we want to preserve trade and free passage on the seas there seems to be no other choice.

Totally agree, targeted missile strikes on their missile launchers and bases will hamper their ability to attack innocent shipping.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

On the BBC News this evening:

Videos of antisemitic speeches by Iranian generals, given to UK students, are being investigated by the Charity Commission.

The regulator is also looking at footage of "death to Israel" chants at an Islamic charity's UK premises.

One of the most powerful paramilitary organisations in the Middle East, the IRGC controls the Iranian government's foreign covert operations and supports militant groups such as Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and the Houthis in Yemen.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68016330

I saw that item, and I was horrified that this kind of hate speech is happening within our University Societies along with mosques.

Our universities are being openly targeted to recruit what the Iranians call soft operatives truly worrying.

I would have expected something similar. Whilst we were seen as an independent and neutral nation we were not considered an enemy by Iran. They have long hated the US because of that country's interference and support for the Shah, once we aligned ourselves with them we were bound to become a target.
It is a sad fact that because we have tied ourselves so closely into US policy in the Middle East we have become a target.
I fear for all the innocent people who will be affected by this development.

For once I totally agree with you Glorianny

I think the U.K. Government’s (of whatever colour) are always going to be pals with USA

I’ve seen more American flags than I care to remember being burned in the streets in many countries, including Britain. I’ve also seen British flags being burned occasionally, again including in Britain, but more usually abroad. Certainly Britain’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, thank you Mr Blair, have caused an increase in flag burning and terrorism all over the world. However, how do you not respond to 9/11? There had to be a response to that atrocity.
However the PLO were committing terror attacks before any of that. It’s been going on since the 70s and before. Plane hijackings and even a cruise ship I think, where the Americans were singled out and some murdered. I remember the PLO murdering an American disabled man on a plane they hijacked and they threw his body and wheelchair if I remember rightly, certainly his body was thrown out of the plane on to the tarmac.

maddyone

I’ve seen more American flags than I care to remember being burned in the streets in many countries, including Britain. I’ve also seen British flags being burned occasionally, again including in Britain, but more usually abroad. Certainly Britain’s involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, thank you Mr Blair, have caused an increase in flag burning and terrorism all over the world. However, how do you not respond to 9/11? There had to be a response to that atrocity.
However the PLO were committing terror attacks before any of that. It’s been going on since the 70s and before. Plane hijackings and even a cruise ship I think, where the Americans were singled out and some murdered. I remember the PLO murdering an American disabled man on a plane they hijacked and they threw his body and wheelchair if I remember rightly, certainly his body was thrown out of the plane on to the tarmac.

In Iran the hate for the US and their interference goes back to the Shah who was massively supported by them. It also worsened during the Iran/Iraq war when the US armed Sadam Hussein who used chemical weapons against Iran.
In Palestine their support is seen as largely the reason why Israel has never complied with UN resolutions, and of course they supply huge amounts of arms

Glorianny

But the bombing and the attacks in the West Bank are killing Christians as well. So hardly just a few trouble makers.

Stop wriggling and twisting my posts. As I’ve said before, we see you.

My response was in relation to your post regarding Jewish activists attacking and spitting on Greek Orthodox and Christian clergy. You’ve now responded with a piece from Al Jazeera about bombings.

Whenever there’s a link from a Jewish source it’s dismissed but we’re supposed to take at face value anything you provide from Islamic outlets. I find it odd that you’ve always spent so much time reading Islamic literature and ‘news’. I’m Jewish but I don’t get my news from The Jewish Chronicle. It’s always best to be balanced and keep an open mind. You should try it.

Al-Jezera, based in Doha, owned and founded by Qatari Royal family member Sheik Hamad ibn Khalifa Al Thani , that’s the same Qatar which Hamas head honchos are living in luxury…

GG Qatar I think US also has a large US base in Qatar and I believe Qatar is named by US as a non NATO ally.
I watch Al Jazeera in addition to other news outlets, because I think it’s important to be aware of different viewpoints apart from our own media. All news outlets are biased to some extent, but believe its important to be informed, but to remain aware of bias.

GrannyGravy13

Al-Jezera, based in Doha, owned and founded by Qatari Royal family member Sheik Hamad ibn Khalifa Al Thani , that’s the same Qatar which Hamas head honchos are living in luxury…

I've got an open mind. The evidence is that Palestinians lived side by side with peoples of all religions and continue to do so. In territory controlled by Israel, Christians and Muslims are treated badly.

GrannyGravy13

Al-Jezera, based in Doha, owned and founded by Qatari Royal family member Sheik Hamad ibn Khalifa Al Thani , that’s the same Qatar which Hamas head honchos are living in luxury…

Qatar is neutral and tries to remain friendly with many countries.

It is difficult to remain truly neutral.

Glorianny
In territory controlled by Israel, Christians and Muslims are treated badly.

It gets worse. It’s pointless trying to have any kind of balanced discussion with you.

How in earth do you think Christians and Jews get treated in Muslim countries? There wouldn’t be any Jews or Christian’s left in some of those places.

I’ve been to Israel. I’ve had conversations with Arabs and seen with my own eyes people of all persuasions living quite normal, peaceful lives. I have photographs - lots of them. I have photographs of my youngest son sat with a Greek Orthodox priest and another little boy under an olive tree.

I’m fed up of reading your biased and untrue posts.

Doubtless some Jewish crackpots do behave badly towards these people but they are a tiny minority. Israel is an open democracy.

tickingbird

Glorianny
In territory controlled by Israel, Christians and Muslims are treated badly.

It gets worse. It’s pointless trying to have any kind of balanced discussion with you.

How in earth do you think Christians and Jews get treated in Muslim countries? There wouldn’t be any Jews or Christian’s left in some of those places.

I’ve been to Israel. I’ve had conversations with Arabs and seen with my own eyes people of all persuasions living quite normal, peaceful lives. I have photographs - lots of them. I have photographs of my youngest son sat with a Greek Orthodox priest and another little boy under an olive tree.

I’m fed up of reading your biased and untrue posts.

Doubtless some Jewish crackpots do behave badly towards these people but they are a tiny minority. Israel is an open democracy.

I’ve caught up with this thread after a week away with rare WiFi
Thanks tickingbird for quoting Gloryanny’s nonsense post stating that in areas controlled by Israel, Christian’s and Muslims are treated badly. I’ve been to Israel and have friends with family there. Gloryanny’s post isn’t accurate. It’s another of those sailing close to anti semitism which she will deny of course but we see her,

I take it you won't argue with NBC www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-palestinians-christians-attacks-holy-land-jewish-extremists-rcna80441
Here's another
apnews.com/article/christians-easter-attacks-netanyahu-jerusalem-e287dd6bad32573d1656eaea07223782

Israel is the only democratic state in the Middle East. Many don’t like Netanyahu on here because he’s right wing. To be honest I don’t know much about him other than my Jewish friends don’t like him. He may well be ousted at the next election. Whatever, there are extremists in every country or society that is democratic. Only in dictatorships can extremism be squashed, but that in itself is extreme. Israel is at war, following one of the most vile and depraved attacks in recent history. Of course people are reacting. I’m saddened that a statue of Christ has been attacked but in the greater scheme of things happening in Israel now, it’s quite small. Sad, but small.

maddyone

Israel is the only democratic state in the Middle East. Many don’t like Netanyahu on here because he’s right wing. To be honest I don’t know much about him other than my Jewish friends don’t like him. He may well be ousted at the next election. Whatever, there are extremists in every country or society that is democratic. Only in dictatorships can extremism be squashed, but that in itself is extreme. Israel is at war, following one of the most vile and depraved attacks in recent history. Of course people are reacting. I’m saddened that a statue of Christ has been attacked but in the greater scheme of things happening in Israel now, it’s quite small. Sad, but small.

Israel is not a democratic state if you are Palestinian. It is an Apartheid State.

To remind everyone of the horror that is still going on.