Fascism in Germany

Beautifully put MazieD

The world is a tinderbox, and at such times awful regimes emerge, history repeats itself again and again which is particularly depressing in the context of German history and the othering that is going on there right now.

Fascism is present in so many guises all over the world though sometimes under different guises, theocracies for example, or any totalitarian state be it Russia, North Korea, Venezuela, call it communism call it what you like, it still amounts to the same thing, a subjugated population and too much power in the hands of megalomaniacs.

Sometimes the little dictators walk among us, factions who covertly pressurise their communities to conform to a way of life they don't want, or shutting down debate because it offends their sensibilities.

Yes the move further and further right can only end at one point.

MaizieD

The story of the rise of fascism is taught, nanna8, but people are reluctant to recognise it happening in their own country.

It is taught now but there is a whole generation of older Germans who were not taught about this in school.

Fascism began in Italy.

Communism should be taught too as it is just as dangerous a concept.

maddyone

It’s very worrying, especially in Germany, but it’s happening in France too, and maybe other countries.

Well it must be happening right under my nos

Right under my nose but I can't see it

Callistemon21

MaizieD

The story of the rise of fascism is taught, nanna8, but people are reluctant to recognise it happening in their own country.

It is taught now but there is a whole generation of older Germans who were not taught about this in school.

Fascism began in Italy.

Communism should be taught too as it is just as dangerous a concept.

TBH, Callistemon, early 21st century capitalism isn't the safest of concepts, either. The alienation of those the 'market' leaves behind is what drives them to extremes.

I have to admit that many of my grandchildren have absolutely no idea about the Second World War and its causes. They have not been taught anything about it and they are in their late teens. They could tell you all about First Nations people and things that happened 200 years plus ago. Interesting but rather alarming.

I recommend a book I'm reading, "I Will Bear Witness" by Victor Klemperer. He was a Jewish professor who lived in Dresden before and during WW11. He kept a secret diary that recorded the gradual takeover by the Nazis. It's alarming how similar things are happening now.

I’ve read that book too Mom3 and a number of others about WW2 and particularly about what happened to the Jews in Europe at that time. Having read these books drove me to visit Auschwitz when I visited Krakow in Poland, and Dachau when I was in Munich, and Theresienstadt when I was in Prague. I also visited Berlin several times and there you can see and learn a lot about what the fascists did to the Jews and others, but also about what happened during communism and you are able to visit a portion of the wall and visit the museum which tells of the horrors inflicted on people during those times. We also visited a museum on communism in Budapest when we were there. All these artifacts (and others I have seen but not mentioned) tell a horrendous story and that is why I’m reluctant to describe anything in Britain or Europe as true fascism or communism. Apart of course, Russia, which has supposedly moved away from communism but is clearly a dictatorship, as are all fascist or communist states.
However, that does not mean I’m complacent or unconcerned. The move to the right is concerning but at this point, no more than that. Our leaders must work to ensure that we remain a properly democratic state. Our schools do teach the history of the last century, including WW1 and WW2 and the holocaust but at GCSE level. I would hope it was taught across Europe to all secondary pupils but I think it probably isn’t. The ignorance about this subject has become very obvious following the ongoing war in Israel. I’ve seen people interviewed on television who couldn’t answer simple questions about how the state of Israel came about, and unbelievably, they knew nothing about the Holocaust!
We must learn from the past.

TBH, Callistemon, early 21st century capitalism isn't the safest of concepts, either. The alienation of those the 'market' leaves behind is what drives them to extremes.

Truer words never spoken, MaizieD.

When the world is turning ever Rightward - recessions and economic crises are dangerous catalysts.

We need to look at how extremism is not the answer. Extreme left is every bit as bad as extreme right - they all lead to dictatorships and crushing of the individual’s spirit. Many seem to be attracted to both, they provide ‘easy’ emotional answers.

Those who are alarmed at the rise of the 'right' have only themselves to blame for allowing the 'left' to make such a mess of things.

Curtaintwitcher

Those who are alarmed at the rise of the 'right' have only themselves to blame for allowing the 'left' to make such a mess of things.

😄😄😄

Unfortunately I don’t think lessons are ever learnt from the past. History has shown us this many times.

Whitewavemark2

Curtaintwitcher

Those who are alarmed at the rise of the 'right' have only themselves to blame for allowing the 'left' to make such a mess of things.

😄😄😄

... ditto

😄😄😄

Having studied German at university, I have a great affection for Germany. This news makes me very sad.

In the seventies, I travelled around Germany on holiday. My friend and I entered a square in Saltzburg to find a fascist rally taking place. She didn't understand German and couldn't understand why I was huckling her out of the square.
It was frightening to hear what was being preached.

I like to think we wouldn’t have 20% of the electorate voting for extreme right wing parties here, but I do wonder. Just for a start, we have a truly dire shortage of reasonable, affordable housing for those already here, never mind many more thousands arriving, and to add to the general cost of living crisis, rents have soared recently - at least they have anywhere around here.

And I don’t believe it’s all down to mortgage IR rises - I started seeing it in an area I watch well before any expectation of that. IMO it is (was) more a ? of supply and demand - landlords whack the rent up just because they can.

And I don’t envisage any party addressing the housing issue with anything more than the odd small sticking plaster. If Starmer has anything up his sleeve, he’s keeping very quiet about it - presumably in case the Tories pinch it.

I loved Salzburg Marydoll and it has only happy memories for me from the twice I visited it. Of course it’s in Austria which I’m sure you know and so not the same as Germany. From my reading of various WW2 memoirs I concluded that Austria was rather more fascist than Germany during that period and so it interesting that you say this happened in the 70s. It’s rather sad too as I always associated Austria, especially Salzburg, with Mozart, The Sound of Music, and Sachertorte. I know there was a terrible concentration camp there though, but I’ve momentarily forgotten it’s name. It’s the one that had the stairs of death where inmates were made to carry huge slabs up and down the massive stone stairway until they were so exhausted that they fell off and died.
It must indeed have been frightening to hear people at a fascist rally and I would have swiftly left too.

Curtaintwitcher

Those who are alarmed at the rise of the 'right' have only themselves to blame for allowing the 'left' to make such a mess of things.

I don't follow this logic at all. The fragmentation of the Conservative party has been long standing and pre-dates Brexit and Johnson's populist politics.

Marydoll

Having studied German at university, I have a great affection for Germany. This news makes me very sad.

In the seventies, I travelled around Germany on holiday. My friend and I entered a square in Saltzburg to find a fascist rally taking place. She didn't understand German and couldn't understand why I was huckling her out of the square.
It was frightening to hear what was being preached.

An alarming experience, Marydoll. In 1973, Germany was hit hard with the world-wide economic crisis stemming from the massive hike in oil prices and (I think) record unemployment.

This kind of agitation always bubbles to the surface in times of economic crisis, and these groups crawl out of the woodwork - because they never actually go away.

That's why we should be afraid (and I certainly am). It's like these fascists are 'waiting in the wings' for the right economic / political climate to emerge and gain new recruits... spreading their poison, isn't it?

I'm alarmed by what is happening here. Groups are being scapegoated because people are feeling the effects both of Austerity and the global economic downturn - and it isn't just immigrants. The unemployed, benefit claimants, the old (Roger Daltrey recently basically blamed old people for the parlous state of the NHS), the disabled... all have come under fire. The government encourages this or, if not encouraging it, condones it by keeping quiet, because it conveniently takes the pressure and focus off them. These economic crises are in the very nature of Capitalism, they are inevitable. Governments should be working together to try to solve these inescapable problems, but instead they allow the frustration, anger and bitterness to fester and bubble until some horrible crisis point is reached.

I find it very, very frightening. And I think we've crossed The Rubicon. That "Never Again" mantra rings rather hollow now; I don't believe we "learned" from history, and I think we are treading the same path again.

I do know Salzburg is in Austria. I should have said I was travelling around Germany and Austria.

I naively thought Fascism had ended with the war. I was of course only 19 and an innocent!

PS Marydoll - I didn't read carefully and missed the bit about Salzburg... just noted that you travelled around Germany.

Wasn't there is Displaced Persons camp in Salzburg? My knowledge of history isn't that good.

Dickens

PS Marydoll - I didn't read carefully and missed the bit about Salzburg... just noted that you travelled around Germany.

Wasn't there is Displaced Persons camp in Salzburg? My knowledge of history isn't that good.

Is it Mauthausen? One of the members, Peter, from the Amsterdam hiding annex went there. I believe the Nazis sent prisoners to Mauthausen from Auschwitz when the Russians were advancing, and Peter was one of them. He died. I think Otto Frank should have gone, but he was too sick in Auschwitz. He survived. (Sorry, I'm a bit too busy to properly check until later).

For someone who is a centrist at heart I find both the far left and the far right equally scary

Hence my political homelessness.