Fascism in Germany

I think you’re absolutely correct Joseann, as soon as I saw the name I remembered, and also about the Germans sending people from Auschwitz and other camps there as the Russians approached. I’ve read a number of memoires that detail the ‘death marches’ that prisoners were sent on as the Russians approached and many ended up in Mauthausen, as well as Belsen and Dachau. I’m not sure where Mauthausen is, I just know it’s in Austria. My son had a friend whose grandparents lived just down the road from Mauthausen and for their whole lives they denied knowing anything about the camp with its thousands of starved prisoners, who were regularly taken out in work details to do all manner of slave labour in the area. It beggars belief than anyone living so close could maintain they were ignorant of this crime for the rest of their lives. And so we see how people can completely ignore these crimes and pretend they never happened.

GrannyGravy13

For someone who is a centrist at heart I find both the far left and the far right equally scary

Hence my political homelessness.

Me too.

GrannyGravy13

For someone who is a centrist at heart I find both the far left and the far right equally scary

Hence my political homelessness.

Absolutely! see very little difference between the two.

Into that toxic mix I would add some of the sinister individuals/bodies who seek to inflict their vision of a new world order on the rest of us, from which they would exclude themselves of course.

The problem is that fascists and those of the like kind offer simplistic solutions to complex problems which are very attractive to people who can't cope with complexity and the time needed to provide complex and often imperfect solutions. It's partly a problem of under education exacerbated by populist/fascist politicians who play on people's paranoia and depression by offering manic solutions. All politicians play this game to some extent but fascist ones take it to extremes. Democracies need to erect barriers to these movements.

Yes, Mauthausen is near Linz maddyone. I have only ever visited Dachau.
Back to Fascism, while in Holland recently, I noticed that Dutch people nowadays like to fiercely express their supposed resistance against the Nazi’s. That is very different to when the Nazi’s invaded the Netherlands when a lot of the Dutch actively collaborated with them. You could say the Dutch have learnt from history, but there is always that nagging doubt. Now with the rise of Pegida and the intentional incited violent resistance against refugees and Muslims in Germany, I wonder whether it might not be long before Holland too sees the return of a form of Fascism for a different reason.
The problems appear to be timeless and universal in so many countries.

I can understand a fear of the far right because we are living with examples of it daily, but 'far left' isn't really in our radar at the moment.

I do feel that, at base, the far right have very little use for those in society who they count as non productive and a burden on society, whereas the left has concern for the powerless and disadvantaged.

If anyone can point me at some frightening 'far left' doctrines and individuals I could, perhaps, make a better assessment of their danger.

I would say that I don't think that anyone posting on these threads could be described as 'far left'.

Despite my degree in German, I'm not very good at politics over there, but I know there is a Left party called die Linke and I believe there is a new far left party emerging under the leadership of Sarah Wagenknecht? Someone else might know more?

MaizieD

I can understand a fear of the far right because we are living with examples of it daily, but 'far left' isn't really in our radar at the moment.

I do feel that, at base, the far right have very little use for those in society who they count as non productive and a burden on society, whereas the left has concern for the powerless and disadvantaged.

If anyone can point me at some frightening 'far left' doctrines and individuals I could, perhaps, make a better assessment of their danger.

I would say that I don't think that anyone posting on these threads could be described as 'far left'.

I would say that I don't think that anyone posting on these threads could be described as 'far left'.

Glad you said that MaizieD. I have, in the past, been accused of being of that 'persuasion'.! It's so far from the truth.

I think what happens, sometimes, is that a poster makes a a forceful kind of blunt statement about (say) Capitalism, or Free-Market Libertarianism - coupled with criticism of its proponents - and the almost automatic assumption is that you must be a raging Leftie. These are simply economic systems that function in a particular way, and have particular effects on populations. It doesn't imply that speaking about the negatives means you want to institute Communism - or some other kind of highly centralised, State controlled / planned economy!

I think most people see themselves as middle of the road/centrist/able to see both sides. Not just politically but on many issues. What’s the alternative? Being blinkered, bigoted and extremist? Not many will identify with that. It’s akin to alcoholics being people who drink more than us, or the rich being those with more money than we have.

I’m another who doesn’t think there is much to choose between extremists of the left and the right. There are many racists, sexists and homophobes at both ends of the spectrum- the frightening things are more about acceptance of authoritarianism than political beliefs, really. At what point would we, any of us, put ourselves at risk to protect others? That’s not an easy question to answer honestly, though.

All I wanted was some examples of well known people considered to be 'far left'. I can't make a judgement of where I would consider myself to be on the spectrum unless I know what the criteria are . The terms 'far left' and 'extremist' mean nothing out of context.

'Far right' is much easier because, as I said, we have had prominent examples in public view over the past few years.

“If anyone can point me at some frightening 'far left' doctrines and individuals I could, perhaps, make a better assessment of their danger.”

Obviously the communist regimes Soviet, Cuba and Venezuela, China is somewhat different, free enterprise is allowed to a point, as long as the “Party” approves. Speak out of line and you will be very quickly sent to a re-education camp, all media is censored, the population only sees what the government want them to see.

Wether it’s left or right manipulation the effect is the same, the Elite get all the advantages and the masses are controlled.

I thought we were talking about the UK, Katie59.

Who is to be feared on the far left in the UK? Or are all these posters who are frightened of the 'extreme left' frightened of a shadow?
We know about the move to the more extreme right, but where is the extreme left?

I know about other countries and their historical and contemporary sociopolitical movements in either direction. But we need to be able to identify actors in our own country in order to judge their possible effects on the UK.

With far left regimes you disappear, get imprisoned or ‘re-educated’ at some sort of camp - think China, Russia etc.
With the far right regimes much the same. I find it easier to think of far left regimes than far right ones these days unless you count some of the Middle East. As far as ‘ opinions’ go, I think they are even stevens but the fact that opinions are allowed to exist kind of shows a tolerance and middle road in itself. Good for the UK that they have both and allow discussions like this. Even in places like Singapore people are not free to say what they really think. Also Hong Kong of course.

Oreo

I don’t think they will get anywhere politically, they are too extreme.
Just as Marine Le Pen never gets into power in France.

Judging by the opposition to them in Germany right now, you may well be right. It seems most Germans are determined that there will be no repeat of the 1930s.

I could only wish that other countries were publicly stating the same.

Sadly I believe this all to be true and extremely scary!

I know what happens in far left regimes. There's no need for people to keep giving me examples. My degree is History/Politics.

Will no-one tell me about the 'far left' extremists in the UK that they are frightened of? And their chances of gaining power?

I think the reason the very far right aka Facism is attractive to some (not me!) is because it can focus on nationalism and patriotism and single out those with “differences”, which can frighten less educated people. Let’s remember Hitler did not just target Jews, but those with learning difficulties, the mentally unwell, those with additional needs, in fact anyone he just “didn’t like” I think racism can creep up sometimes without people really realising under the guise of things like Britain First, who seemingly support our veterans and proudly fly the Union Jack.

Extremes either way are not attractive, however true communism, as it was initially meant to be before greedy leaders hijacked it, appears, at least to me, to be far more attractive than pure facism !

It's horrible, and frightening.

Gradually you see these sorts of ideas becoming more acceptable to some people - not just in Europe either. It only takes a few well known big mouths to voice cruel and prejudiced ideas for people from the general population to feel emboldened to voice similar opinions.

Oh dear. History repeating itself. I wonder why so many people hate the Jews? Is it their wealth ? Or something else ?

Having lived in Germany for 10yrs and found them very friendly to us military families and how they lived in a very clean country law breakers were dealt with not just ignored. What was once our homes are now given to immigrants who have destroyed the area. My German friends tell me I can understand why as the same thing is happening in my area and many other areas and countries so ppl born in these countries have had enough and are starting to voice their opinions. I said this would happen few years ago and it’s going to get worse not better unfortunately

Dillonsgranma, the Jews have been persecuted throughout history, throughout the world.

12:39Dillonsgranma

Oh dear. History repeating itself. I wonder why so many people hate the Jews? Is it their wealth ? Or something else ?

The Germans don't hate the Jews its certain sections of Muslim groups that hate them, the Germans hate\dislike Muslim immigrants\illegals. My husband was talking to a German lady where we are staying and she said they have a big problem with migrants/illegals in Berlin.

That's interesting Nannashirlz. I think Angela Merkel was lucky to leave office when she did because the situation recently has deteriorated. My understanding is that most of the uprising fascist movement is in the Eastern part of Germany which is of course where Merkel originates from.

Yesterday 06:59 Curtaintwitcher

Those who are alarmed at the rise of the 'right' have only themselves to blame for allowing the 'left' to make such a mess of things.

In the words of the great tennis player, you cannot be serious

Jews have been persecuted for centuries and certainly not always for being “rich” They were exceedingly hard working traders historically, but there was no reason at all to persecute then, unless of course, religious zealots feel they’re responsible for killing Jesus?

Migrants have been around since the year dot. Sad to see, yet again, some OPs referring to them as “illegals” and blaming the rise of the far right solely on them!

Moslems, as a general rule, are peace living, especially those who’ve settle here in the UK. I’ve worked with Muslim men and women and found them to be hard working, open, honest people. Before you leap on me yes their Bible has some pretty radical ideas. Anyone read the Old Testament lately.

We too lived in Germany way back in the day as my Dad was based in Düsseldorf for a while. I had a really lovely German Au Pair when my children were little, she is now married with her own children back in Germany and an English Teacher. We are still in touch after all these years.