Conscription

AGAA4

I think many of us have worked and contributed voluntarily after retirement. I looked after my grandchildren so my daughter could work as a teacher till I was 73. I know there are many grans who do likewise. It is a form of national service but it should only ever be voluntary.

There could be exemptions for those who have already 'served' in various capacities. I don't think that anything involving working with vulnerable people (including children) should involve any degree of coercion, though. Maybe none of it should - I still don't know what I think.

I just feel that in a complex society like ours, nobody should get a 'free ride', and that a tailored (and non-military) scheme could have a lot of benefits if administered benignly in the right hands. In the wrong hands, however, there is potential for it to do a lot of harm.

Thank you, Doodledog, for enlarging on the idea I threw out.

What I had in mind for age 70 would take years to set up and require a certain lead-in time. It would be for one year with (say) a 4 day week. Not voluntary but remunerated in bands roughly according to previous earnings with more demanding work expected of higher earners. Think what could then be achieved working alongside the voluntary sector, and with the hope that many would carry on as volunteers after their year.

winterwhite I do hope you are joking?

Crikey, I am fast approaching 70 and would not appreciate having to work a 4 day week.
I worked up to age 67, have always and continue to be involved in voluntary efforts for my village.
Just put me down for some sock knitting!

Some quite flippant comments on here! I think if we were threatened with invasion, bombing, and all that that involves, the population would fight, as they have before. Maybe I am wrong, in which case we would have to accept whatever fate has in store for us and put up with it, as Europe did in WW2. Except there may not be anyone to fight for, and liberate us.

Some here would have us work til we drop, I think, reading some of these posts. Think again.

I don't know if I've misunderstood this but I don't think you can always equate "people who don't work" with non-taxpayers. I no longer do paid work, after 45 years of it, because I have retired from work but I am a lifelong and continuing UK Taxpayer.
Agree nothing wrong with throwing ideas out....
Hoping that neither my nephews nor my niece will have to see combat.......

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

I think any government trying to introduce such a thing wou;d be committing political suicide.

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

Well as both DH and I have been active in the Charity sector for over 40 years whilst building up a (so far) successful SME and raising 5 children then straight into childcare for 8 GC, I would not be interested in enforced volunteering

I agree with Pammiel it would be political suicide and never get through the H of C’s let alone the H of L’s.

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

You're right; it's not funny at all. Why would you think that a working life of, in my case 50+ years, needs to be "marked" by anything other than the chance to put our feet up and do exactly what we want? "Appropriate community work" has often been done in addition to contributing to the economy by working full time and can, if one so chooses, continue when one has retired. If you want conscription "Appropriate community workers" may I respectfully suggest that you firstly cast your net amongst those who have had a lifetime of contributing neither fiscally nor practically. You won't have to look too far; there's plenty of them.

My goodness so much is contributed to society already by those of pension age

Think of the unpaid childcare, the caring, the volunteering, the untold and unrecorded visits and help to friends and acquaintances, the work carried out in such institutions as churches, village halls, various committees etc. etc.

Take all that out of the equation because the government insists on the pensioner “doing their bit” and society would be much the poorer.

People retire for a good reason, ignore that and commit political suicide.

Silly idea Winterwhite I thought it was a joke and not a very good one.

Pammie1

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

I think any government trying to introduce such a thing wou;d be committing political suicide.

I agree Pammie1

Retiree Conscription just isn't going to be attractive to very many people.

Either you retire from work or not. Adding another year of community work is just upping the retirement age. And the logistics of who does what in the 'community' - and for how much remuneration, would be an operational and organisational nightmare.

Not to mention the fact that at age 70, many people's health starts to deteriorate. Not necessarily drastically (though for some, it is), but energy levels drop, tiredness creeps up on you, joints wear out, etc,

... and for some, the 70s are the last few years of their life. There are also those who've been combining their work with looking after ageing and ailing parents as they near retirement.

Enough is enough.

winterwhite My weekly "Community Work" since retirement from full-time work at the age of 69, consists of 3 mornings of school drop offs, 2 afternoons of school pick ups, 1 evening of taking 2 children to swimming lessons, 1 evening taking a child to football practice, 2 mornings as a volunteer committee member for a retirement group. All gratis. I'm tired now. I've done my bit and more. I don't want to contribute any more of my time to society. I just want to be left alone to read my long neglected books, tend my neglected garden and sit on my backside watching you toil away with your appropriate community work/service before retirement. Enjoy!

I think this government is desperate to reduce the number of pensioners. Covid didn't do enough so now they can go after the non tax paying, state pensioners (intended as light hearted comment) and work the remaining life out of them. The really scary thing will be if trump gets reflected and takes the USA out of NATO. I can see conscription being necessary in that scenario. We, born after WW2, have known a time of stability and relative prosperity unknown to many. As the world moves towards the far right it is all becoming far more precarious. We may well find war on our doorstep instead of it being something that happens "over there".

Re-elected , not reflected

winterwhite

No I'm not entirely joking. I'm envisaging a situation where the end of working life is marked with a year of appropriate community work/service before retirement. What is so funny about that?

Enforced volunteering = slavery

Why does everyone keep assuming that some people are 'non taxpayers'?

'Tax' isn't just income tax, most people will be lifelong taxpayers unless they don't spend any money at all...

It appears that the Germans are facing the same difficulties regarding manpower shortages in their armed services. Their Defence Minister has mooted the possibility of reintroducing compulsory military service, which was ended in 2011. There is political resistance to it though. The Swedes have reintroduced CMS too.

I certainly wasn't envisaging a compulsory 4 day week for over 70's! Good grief. In wartime, maybe it would be necessary, but I do think people need to put their feet up at some point, after decades of work.

But if everyone (who is able to) gave up even half a day, a lot could be achieved to make the country a better place. People working full-time would be exempt, but there could be compulsory schemes for employers to allow staff days off - a bit like for being a magistrate, or if they are in the TA. My children both work for employers who operate volunteer schemes, but I think they are only once or twice a year. My daughter always opts to work for the Dogs' Trust, and my son cleans up an area of the beach near where he lives. They get exercise (as do the dogs!) they meet new people from other companies in the schemes, and their work is for good causes. There is no remuneration and they make up lost work time afterwards, but their salaries are paid, so both they and their (different) employers contribute in their own ways. It will be tax deductible for the employers too, I assume.

I don't (personally) see looking after one's own family as community service though, unless there are extenuating circumstances. We all do that, along with running our homes and so on.

Clearly 4 days was too much! I made it clear that the scheme I was outlining was for one year per person only, would be remunerated, and that it would take years of planning and reshape current patterns of volunteering.

Why does everyone keep assuming that some people are 'non taxpayers'?
'Tax' isn't just income tax, most people will be lifelong taxpayers unless they don't spend any money at all...

Yes, we know that MaisyD, but I think you're taking the phrase "non taxpayers" a little too literally. I'm fairly certain that most people know about indirect taxes etc but, for ease of the discussion, they use the phrase to indicate that many people don't have a sufficiently high level of income to attract paying taxes on it. Don't get stressed by it; we all know what they mean.

Somewhere in this discussion the word 'unproductive' was used in conjunction with taxpaying. Which says to me that people don't necessarily think about other forms of taxation.

Anyway, the idea of it obligatory to 'contribute to society' in the ways suggested makes me very uneasy.
How did people feel, for example, about the tory MP saying that it's women's duty to have children?

If their work was being remunerated how can it be voluntary? OED says that voluntary is done, given, or acting of one's own free will but you're suggesting that it would be "one year per person" which sounds rather prescriptive and contractual. You would definitely reshape current patterns of volunteering; with your idea; you'd have thousands of disgruntled, resentful people who don't want to be working in a community garden or handing out tea for the WVS.

Why not just make everyone work a year longer after their due retirement date and be done with it? Oh wait..... that's already been done by previous by previous governments!