Conscription

I think there is a difference between asking people (and not just young people) to go abroad to 'fight in foreign wars' and asking them to contribute to their country at home.

I wouldn't support the old-style national service, which enlisted young men into the forces and sent them to fight, but I am tentatively coming round to the idea of expecting everyone to 'do something' for the collective good. I haven't quite pinned down what the 'something' could be, but I think it could be very broad. I saw a (lovely) film called A Yak In The Classroom, set in Bhutan, where national service was tailored to the individual - in the story a young man was sent to teach in a primary school in a remote village. Not necessarily something that would work here, but there could be all sorts of options. In some cases the results might be remedial for the people doing the service, and in others it could benefit an increasingly divided society - in many cases it could probably do both at the same time.

Maybe everyone should have to 'do something' for a certain number of weeks a year and complete them within a five year period? The finer points would need to be decided by people cleverer than me, but something like that would allow for life events to be accommodated and for people to plan. Nobody need be forced to move away from home, but those who wanted to could be given a chance to live somewhere different for a while, and people could learn new skills, whether they are practical or 'people skills'. I don't know who would supervise any of this - that would be a potential obstacle - or what would happen if people refused to co-operate. Again, that would need to be decided. Maybe a reward system would work better than a punitive one, but something would have to ensure that those who could afford it couldn't buy their way out, as that puts the kibosh on many well-intentioned schemes. It has to be fair, but fairness can be very subjective.

As regards actual military action, I think that this should be addressed by a combination of prioritising diplomacy and ensuring that the armed forces are capable of a defensive response if we are attacked. A combination of Brexit (thought by some to have been engineered by Putin), an increasingly isolationist US, a powerful China (and India) and unrest in the Middle East has exposed our vulnerability in the face of a military attack, and much as I (like the vast majority of people, I'm sure) would much prefer to live in peace, freedom is never free - it often comes at a very high price.

I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society. But that is quite different to what General Sanders is proposing.

I thought it was generally assumed that the need for a large land army to defend these shores was a thing of the past. That future attacks on the UK would either affect power or food supplies (in which case the current army would assume civic organisation roles), or be nuclear.

I doubt Russia will physically invade the UK. If they want to get rid of us a nuke would kill 90% of us.
Having Russians haring up our beaches is unlikely.

I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

If it came to war, it might unite some of our youth gangs against a common enemy rather than fighting each other.

I think by age 70 many if us will have fulfilled out obligations to society by the work we have done and the families we have raised to carry on those obligations through their work.

AGAA4

I doubt Russia will physically invade the UK. If they want to get rid of us a nuke would kill 90% of us.
Having Russians haring up our beaches is unlikely.

They wouldn’t fancy it though with all that sewerage.

I have always taken some rather twisted comfort from the thought that the great Tom Lehrer was right, and that if the third world war should break out "We will all go together when we go" as it would be nuclear and over in minutes.

Better red than dead, as we used to say, than to have my dear GC wasted like the WW1 generation.

Juliet27

If it came to war, it might unite some of our youth gangs against a common enemy rather than fighting each other.

I don't really think that a war is the best way to stop gang fights, do you?

Whitewavemark2

AGAA4

I doubt Russia will physically invade the UK. If they want to get rid of us a nuke would kill 90% of us.
Having Russians haring up our beaches is unlikely.

They wouldn’t fancy it though with all that sewerage.

🤣🤣🤣

"How can we put them off, Pike?"

They wouldn’t fancy it though with all that sewerage
Doesn’t seem to have deterred some!

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

Well, lots of us are doing our bit for charities already 🙂

I was hardly saying it was preferable WWM

Sorry that was to WhenIwas… not WWM

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm afraid that this 'obligations to society' sounds a bit fascist to me.

Almost the opposite of Thatcher's "There is no such thing as society, only individuals" Turn it round and you get "There's no such thing as individuals, only society".

'Society' is a complex concept; any feeling of 'obligation' to it should be voluntary, not forced.

"How can we put them off, Pike?"

First of all, put the water companies in charge of the beaches...

Juliet27

^I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society^

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm not Winterwhite, obviously, and she may have her own ideas, but why not ask 70+ year olds to go into primary schools to read stories or talk to children about life in their own childhoods, when everything was in black and white and we had to use encyclopaedias? Obviously under supervision, and with requisite police checks. Or things like reading for talking newspapers, visiting hospitals, or yes - knitting socks, and teaching others to do so. How often do we hear older people complaining that they managed so much better than young people - why not run community kitchens where people can learn to make soup or lentil pies?

Those with specialist qualifications could use those in a voluntary capacity if they felt better suited to doing so - many already do, in CABs or in other voluntary roles. It need only be fitness and/or mobility that gets in the way of older people doing the same as younger ones, and that can be overcome by getting volunteers to drive taxis or minibuses. Actually, that's something else that community service could provide - public transport in areas currently ill-served by it.

My mum volunteers in a charity shop and a library, and she is 88 - not everyone is so lucky health wise, but my point is that age need not be a barrier.

I'm not saying that we should have 88 year old conscripts, but that instead of assuming that older people can't do much, we could look at what they (as individuals) might like to do. There could be less loneliness, and more understanding between generations if all age groups were included in some sort of national service.

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

MaizieD

Juliet27

I agree Doodledog in the idea of mandatory community service, perhaps on leaving school and at age 70, ages when many of us need a reminder of our obligations to society

What did you have in mind Winterwhite for age 70?

I'm afraid that this 'obligations to society' sounds a bit fascist to me.

Almost the opposite of Thatcher's "There is no such thing as society, only individuals" Turn it round and you get "There's no such thing as individuals, only society".

'Society' is a complex concept; any feeling of 'obligation' to it should be voluntary, not forced.

I can see what you mean, but anything can be twisted to mean something other than intended if there is a will to do so.

The UK is a very individualist society, like much of the 'West', and we don't like being compelled to do things (other than queueing), but we are very good at moaning about other groups, and at only mixing with 'people like us'. Call it what you like - an obligation, a duty, an opportunity. Attach certificates, financial recompense, or extra holidays for those who opt in - or something else. It can be packaged in a lot of ways, but some sort of scheme might be a way to encourage a coherence that our society (in which I do believe, incidentally) has lost.

As soon as I see Johnson, Blair, Cummings, Starmer, Sunak, Truss, et al, all serving as squaddies and cowering in a muddy trench with nothing more than the same defective weaponry our current armed forces are equipped with, for a minimum of 2 years, I'll enlist and climb in the trench alongside them. Until then, they can bugger off.

AGAA4

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

Wouldn't it?

It would really scare me.

I think many of us have worked and contributed voluntarily after retirement. I looked after my grandchildren so my daughter could work as a teacher till I was 73. I know there are many grans who do likewise. It is a form of national service but it should only ever be voluntary.

Doodledog

AGAA4

We need to have a Grans Army. That would really scare them.

Wouldn't it?

It would really scare me.

🤣🤣🤣

I'm not Winterwhite, obviously, and she may have her own ideas, but why not ask 70+ year olds to go into primary schools to read stories or talk to children about life in their own childhoods, when everything was in black and white and we had to use encyclopaedias?

Ooh, I'm not sure about that, I'd have trouble getting up fro those little chairs ........

Doodledog
I think retired people are doing a lot of the activities suggested and are the mainstay of the charity shops, caring for grandchildren, planting community gardens, organising and running groups like TWG, WI, U3A, Rotary, Lions, Round Table plus other charity groups.

They are already a volunteer army, perhaps not as appreciated as they should be; many are getting older, in their late 70s, 80s, even 90s and finding younger retired people are just not as interested in taking over the mantle from them.