Emergency Aid To Gaza Halted Because Israel Says So?

Katie59

Israel will know when Hamas has been defeated rockets will stop being launched and armed resistance in Gaza will stop.
The proper aid can be distributed in Gaza

Maybe we should have blitzed Ireland at the height of the IRA bombing campaign? Surprised that no one thought of that as a solution…

CNN

More than 800 officials from the United States and Europe have signed a scathing criticism of Western policy towards Israel and Gaza, accusing their governments of possible complicity in war crimes.

In a statement obtained by CNN, the officials say there is a “plausible risk that our governments’ policies are contributing to grave violations of international humanitarian law, war crimes and even ethnic cleansing or genocide.”

They accuse their governments of failing to hold Israel to the same standards they apply to other countries and weakening their own “moral standing” in the world.

Among them are around 80 United States officials and diplomats.

BBC

More than 800 serving officials in the US and Europe have signed a statement warning that their own governments' policies on the Israel-Gaza war could amount to "grave violations of international law".
The "transatlantic statement", a copy of which was passed to the BBC, says their administrations risk being complicit in "one of the worst human catastrophes of this century" but that their expert advice has been sidelined.
It is the latest sign of significant levels of dissent within the governments of some of Israel's key Western allies.
One signatory to the statement, a US government official with more than 25 years' national security experience, told the BBC of the "continued dismissal" of their concerns.
"The voices of those who understand the region and the dynamics were not listened to," said the official.
"What's really different here is we're not failing to prevent something, we're actively complicit. That is fundamentally different from any other situation I can recall," added the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The statement is signed by civil servants, diplomats and government officials from the US, the EU and 11 European countries including the UK, France and Germany.

Sources close to !

Has the US got any “moral authority” after Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. All they succeeded doing was destabilize whole regions, can we say that any changes in those countries were for the better.

MayBee70

Katie59

Israel will know when Hamas has been defeated rockets will stop being launched and armed resistance in Gaza will stop.
The proper aid can be distributed in Gaza

Maybe we should have blitzed Ireland at the height of the IRA bombing campaign? Surprised that no one thought of that as a solution…

I do remember back when the troubles were at their height that one friend suggested towing Ireland out into the Atlantic and sinking it.
There was a lot of beer involved in that suggestion

Maybe others know better than me, but I thought that genocide was when whole populations were deliberately wiped out, or killed, or murdered, by another group or population. So the Holocaust was an attempted genocide but was not actually completed because only six million European Jews were murdered out of the estimated eleven million European Jews in existence at that time.
So it is, it seems to me, that what Israel is doing isn’t genocide, but could possibly become genocide. But I might be wrong about that.
The problem, whether it is genocide or not, is how far should Israel be allowed to defend itself against a murderous regime such as Hamas? Perhaps Israel should allow all women and children to leave and stay in a controlled area outside of Gaza but inside Israel until all this is over. I realise that women and older children have been found guilty of terrorism offences in Israel, but surely this would give the Israelis the opportunity to really finish Hamas in Gaza, whilst protecting the children and the women. Aid could then be available for the women and children at least.

Intent is also considered, and judging by the comments from many Israeli government officials - it would appear the “intent” to kill all Palestinians, is certainly there.

The stated intention of Israel to rid the world of Hamas will never happen. Hamas is not just situated in Gaza, but in other Middle Eastern countries. It is an ideology, manifested in its officials. How do you “kill” an ideology with violence - you never will.

Diplomacy is the only route out of this dreadful situation.

Hamas and diplomacy ?

This account by CNN explains how the bombs Israel is using are not "smart" bombs which are directed at specific targets but undirected general munitions which hit civilians. There is also a first report from inside Gaza by a US reporter. If you want to see the horror watch, but be warned you will cry. edition.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html#:~:text=It%20is%20not%20clear%20what,

Diplomacy only works if you give in to the terrorists. The ‘peace’ deal in Northern Ireland involved giving in to the demands of terrorists. Nonetheless it stopped much, but not all, the violence. However we now have the appalling situation whereby IRA murderers walk the streets unhindered, and even sit in our parliaments, whilst ex soldiers of the British Army are prosecuted, or threatened with prosecution, in their old age, for doing their jobs!
Diplomacy only works when both sides are prepared to give and take, and importantly, they stick to it. I don’t think Hamas will stick to any agreement until they take Israel as their own.

there were three sides murdering in NI not just republicans...the British army may have been "doing their job" but they were not doing it in the manner it should have been and they murdered ...yes murdered countless innocents thinking a uniform gives them the right.I know most on here will never believe anything thats "british military" can behave as abominably as they did ...but look at history ..recent history.There are just as many rogue soldiers wearing british uniforms as any other nation has.
I do wish you could see things through the eyes of the families who suffered under British military in many places ,Ireland was just the latest My NI family can attest to it

What about the families of soldiers who were murdered by the IRA?
What about the families of Unionists who were murdered by the IRA?
Don’t those families count?

maddyone

Diplomacy only works if you give in to the terrorists. The ‘peace’ deal in Northern Ireland involved giving in to the demands of terrorists. Nonetheless it stopped much, but not all, the violence. However we now have the appalling situation whereby IRA murderers walk the streets unhindered, and even sit in our parliaments, whilst ex soldiers of the British Army are prosecuted, or threatened with prosecution, in their old age, for doing their jobs!
Diplomacy only works when both sides are prepared to give and take, and importantly, they stick to it. I don’t think Hamas will stick to any agreement until they take Israel as their own.

If you want to get things right maddyone there are also Loyalist (I hate that term it gives them some appearance of legitimacy) Protestant killers walking the streets as well.

As for Hamas. They set up a political wing and were prepared to negotiate a two state solution. It was Israel who refused it. The two state solution accepted by Hamas required them to return the land taken in 1967 (as the UN resolution did). Israel consistently refuses to do so.

The victims of pub bombings in England

maddyone

What about the families of soldiers who were murdered by the IRA?
What about the families of Unionists who were murdered by the IRA?
Don’t those families count?

What about the families of people murdered by the UDA?
Don't they count?
Read Patrick Keilty's account of his father's death. He has said he could never forgive the killers, but if the peace stops another family going through what his did, it is worth not seeing them convicted.

Glorianny
All the murder victims count. All of them.
But let’s not pretend that the ‘peace’ in Northern Ireland wasn’t bought at a high price.
And Hamas do not want peace, their stated intention is to kill every Jew in Israel.

maddyone

Glorianny
All the murder victims count. All of them.
But let’s not pretend that the ‘peace’ in Northern Ireland wasn’t bought at a high price.
And Hamas do not want peace, their stated intention is to kill every Jew in Israel.

Well if you want to compare Ireland and Gaza, look at how Patrick Keilty and his brother were offered IRA membership at his dad's funeral. A supportive family helped him say "No". Then reflect on how many young men in Gaza Hamas will be recruiting now. Men whose whole families have been wiped out. Then think how many of the orphaned children will grow up to hate Israel.
So even the idea that Hamas can be beaten by this bombing campaign is wrong. As has been said you cannot kill an idea. But in any case the concept that Israel's aim is to destroy Hamas is wrong. They know it can't be done. It's much more about clearing Northern Gaza and occupying it and trying to get Egypt to accept some of the Palestinians packed into Southern Gaza

Glorianny widen your viewing/reading there are multiple examples of Hamas Head Honchos stating that they will repeat the atrocities of 7/10 time and time again until their is not a single Jew on the planet…

Anniebach

Hamas and diplomacy ?

You will be pleased to know that Qatar has stated that Hamas are close to agreeing a ceasefire

Diplomacy was the tool used.

Do you think it's possible there might be other reasons why Hamas are allegedly close to a ceasefire.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny widen your viewing/reading there are multiple examples of Hamas Head Honchos stating that they will repeat the atrocities of 7/10 time and time again until their is not a single Jew on the planet…

There are also multiple examples of right wing Israelis saying they will kill all Palestinians. Should I believe both of these are true?

Well, I can’t answer that unless you expand your question.

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny widen your viewing/reading there are multiple examples of Hamas Head Honchos stating that they will repeat the atrocities of 7/10 time and time again until their is not a single Jew on the planet…

There are also multiple examples of right wing Israelis saying they will kill all Palestinians. Should I believe both of these are true?

It’s up to you.

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny

GrannyGravy13

Glorianny widen your viewing/reading there are multiple examples of Hamas Head Honchos stating that they will repeat the atrocities of 7/10 time and time again until their is not a single Jew on the planet…

There are also multiple examples of right wing Israelis saying they will kill all Palestinians. Should I believe both of these are true?

It’s up to you.

That's fine. I believe neither is either probable or possible.
What I don't understand is anyone who chooses to believe one but not the other.
Either you believe the extremists will hold sway, in which case both Palestinians and Jews are doomed.
It isn't logical to believe Hamas but not Israel. Particularly given the immense firepower Israel commands.

Glorianny I believe in Israel’s right to defend itself against terrorists.

Unfortunately Hamas hide amongst the population of Gaza.

I feel immense sympathy for all who have lost loved ones, who are maimed and who are living in fear in the region.

If and when a ceasefire is agreed on it will take years to rebuild the relationship between Israel and Palestinians.

I cannot see a place for Hamas in Gaza or the West Bank…