Azar Ali

BBC News - They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

Is this proof?

Urmstongran

Surely though Israel represents the ‘safe space’ in the world for the Jewish people who need a place where they can’t be hounded out from. Imagine how they must feel trying to live in places when anti-Semitic demonstrations run riot. Why are we so mean to the Jews?

Where is the "safe space" for the Palestinians? Where was the safe place for Hind Rajab and all the other Palestinian children who have been killed in this "war"? Imagine how Palestinians must feel thrown out of their own land, caged up in Gaza or living on the West Bank, where they get harassed by Israeli settlers and made to leave their homes. Palestinians should have the same rights as Israelis but they don't.
I am not anti semitic but I am most definitely anti Netanyahu and the actions of his right wing government. There's a huge difference between allowing Hamas to build it's strength so that it was a creditable challenger to Fatah and deliberately allowing Hamas to enter Israel to commit atrocities but Netanyahu should be held responsible for the consequences of his actions and it is certainly not anti semitic to ask questions about what he knew and chose to ignore. Azar Ali is a politician and should understand that he should have chosen his words very carefully and it seems that didn't.

Surely, when we are critical of a nation's government, we are not condemning all the people governed by it?

The West is at loggerheads with Iran (for example) - are we reviling its people, many of whom appear also to be opposed to its own government? Are we censuring Islam because we denounce an administration that has appropriated the religion for its own ends?

Even within governments, there are factions that disagree, we've seen it with our own government.

Are we then to keep quiet, not question, not hold governments accountable?

Azhar Ali was wrong to say that Israel planned to "get rid of [Palestinians] from Gaza" and "grab" some of the land - because he is presenting it as a fact, and as far as I know has offered no evidence to support it. If you are in the 'public eye' you cannot make inflammatory statements like that and not be held accountable, and the Labour Party should have withdrawn its support for him as a candidate immediately.

In the interests of free-speech and Democracy, one can still ask the question though of why - if the Israeli government was made aware of the intelligence that indicated Hamas might be planning an attack (and such intelligence allegedly came from more than one source) - they appeared to ignore it. Surely those whose family members were slaughtered so barbarically in the attack have a right to know and will want to know if it could have been prevented? Governments have a duty to protect their citizens - as far as is possible anyway.

Black September Munich Massacre.

I agree with you 100% Dickens. Ali was a fool to say what he did because there is no proof as far as I know. Nevertheless, I don't agree that criticising any action (or lack of action) by the Israeli government is anti-semitic.

The lack of action spoken of here is the government of Israel
allowing the massacre of Israeli citizens

Does anyone realise how many warnings Israel gets from intel sources about hamas attacks? Lots, is the answer.
Sure, they will need to make their borders even more secure than normal from now on and an investigation held into security failings.
What this Labour candidate said was a disgrace and better late than never that Starmer has removed him from standing as a Labour MP.Never a good look to waver tho.
The worry is that huge numbers of Muslims think this way simply because of their religion.
I see a number of posters on this forum also think that way, and that’s worrying too, possibly not Muslim but left wing.

Anniebach

The lack of action spoken of here is the government of Israel
allowing the massacre of Israeli citizens

It’s a ludicrous and awful accusation isn’t it? And yes, an anti-semitic one.

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

Dreadfully sad,heartbreaking for people affected. Surely its not an either/ or situation?
I can't look at images or think about it.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

Anniebach

The lack of action spoken of here is the government of Israel
allowing the massacre of Israeli citizens

Agreed. And?

There is a possibility that Mossad/the IDF/the Israeli government was told, but mistakenly believed the defences were strong enough.

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

This isn't about supporting a favourite football team. It's about wading through the reams of reports and trying to sort out facts from all the propaganda on both sides, including "supporters" in various foreign governments justifying their own actions.

How crass.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

I'm extremely bothered, which increases my sympathy for the Palestinians bearing the brunt of it all, knowing there's nothing they can do.

Callistemon21

How crass.

Really? I'm afraid that's genuinely how I think some people see the situation.

You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.

It's the way you always try to belittle the opinions of others, growstuff.

I understand why you used that analogy, growstuff. I can't see see how full support for either side is possible when each is engaged in unspeakable actions. I just want it to stop.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

Callistemon21

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

As they sit in safety in other countries, watching their people being slaughtered and refusing to release hostages.
Does that suit their agenda?

In my opinion Callistemon21: it 100% suits their agenda.

This isn't about supporting a favourite football team. It's about wading through the reams of reports and trying to sort out facts from all the propaganda on both sides, including "supporters" in various foreign governments justifying their own actions.

growstuff exactly.

People are being killed and maimed, orphaned and destitute, starved and tortured.

So I feel we must be absolutely scrupulous as far as possible in our presentation of facts.

So - the evidence we have so far concerning the hostages is this -

The largest amount of freed hostages were as a result of negotiations between Qatar, Egypt, hamas and Israel.

Since then Israel has freed 3 hostages at the expense of thousands upon thousands of lives, as well as managing to “accidentally kill” a number of other hostages being held captive.

Hamas have said that they are willing to negotiate further on the release of hostages, but Netanyahu has turned this down to the horror of the hostages families, who protested in the Knesset.

GrannyGravy13

I am amazed that nobody is bothered by Hamas Head Honchos repeatedly stating that they will repeat their actions of 7/10/23 until every Jew is wiped off of the planet.

Blinken "Israelis were dehumanized in the most horrific way on October 7," he told a news conference in Tel Aviv. "The hostages have been dehumanised every day since. But that cannot be a license to dehumanise others."

I totally agree with Blinken and this is why I (and I am not alone) completely abhor what is happening in Gaza. Totally innocent people are losing their lives, their homes and their futures because of Netanyahu's obsession to stay in power. Thank goodness the US and our own govt have started to back away from supporting this crazy man. This is not about bringing hostages home, it's about keeping Netanyahu out of prison.

So do we all.

I still say the remark was crass.

Just because I recognise that the blame for this current situation lays firmly at the feet of Hamas, does not mean that I am not appalled at the loss of life in Palestine.

Parsley3

BBC News - They were Israel's 'eyes on the border' - but their Hamas warnings went unheard
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67958260

Is this proof?

Thanks for posting this . If it isn't proof it is at the very least grounds for discussion about what went on.
The remarks might have been crass but whilst there is evidence like this, from young women who gave their lives, speaking out should not be an offence. It might have been deliberate, it might have been a complete screw up, but something enabled Hamas to get through and for some reason these women were ignored. If no one can ask why without being accused of antisemitism what value does that put on their lives?

What I am really worried about is that Netanyahu simply isn’t listening to the world.

He has no intention of withdrawing from Gaza after hostilities cease (if they ever do) - Israel will become am occupying force suppressing the Palestinians.

How can they be stopped?

The only way is sanctions and refusal to sell Israel arms -

What a mess.