Islamaphobia is getting out of control

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Anniebach

The Anglican Church is not bigoted

In the UK. does it allow gay marriage in its churches? No. Was the proposal at Synod last November to allow standalone blessings for gay marriages carried with a sweeping majority? No (in fact it was passed by just one vote). Was there an almighty row about allowing blessings for gay marriage as part of existing services? Of course there was. Did the CofE formally apologise to gay people last year for its homophobia, and write that its proposals to permit blessings for gay civil-partnerships were divisive, and upsetting to some clergy? Yes it did. Does it still require gay clergy, even those who are legally married, to be celibate? Yes it does.

There are many other examples of entrenched and institutionalised homophobia and sexism from the wider Anglican Church.

Siope

Anniebach

The Anglican Church is not bigoted

In the UK. does it allow gay marriage in its churches? No. Was the proposal at Synod last November to allow standalone blessings for gay marriages carried with a sweeping majority? No (in fact it was passed by just one vote). Was there an almighty row about allowing blessings for gay marriage as part of existing services? Of course there was. Did the CofE formally apologise to gay people last year for its homophobia, and write that its proposals to permit blessings for gay civil-partnerships were divisive, and upsetting to some clergy? Yes it did. Does it still require gay clergy, even those who are legally married, to be celibate? Yes it does.

There are many other examples of entrenched and institutionalised homophobia and sexism from the wider Anglican Church.

I suppose the problem lies with the definition of marriage in many religions, not just Christianity. The whole concept definition and meaning of the word marriage as defined in the marriage service in these religions would have to be changed. If it is believed that marriage is as defined by God (whichever God that is) then that would be a huge hurdle to overcome.

Non-religious marriages ceremonies are available to all.

Callstemon I stuck to the CofE, as part of the Anglican communion, because I was responding to a comment about it, and it holds a unique position in the UK. I do think a very interesting, nuanced (and threadjacking) conversation could be had around things like how different denominations within the same religion come to different doctrinal positions on a range of social issues; to what extent, if at all, an organisation which helps determine the law via its role in Parliament should be excused from implementing it (or, of course, should a body which has certain moral positions be involved in passing legislation); is discrimination on religious grounds acceptable, and why; and lots more.

The Anglican church in Africa has condemned the decision and still considers homosexuality a sin.https://religionnews.com/2023/02/16/we-cannot-walk-with-you-unless-you-repent-african-archbishops-tell-church-of-england/
It's a huge mistake to think all Christians are enlightened and all muslims are not. Both religions have extremist branches.

Sorry link
religionnews.com/2023/02/16/we-cannot-walk-with-you-unless-you-repent-african-archbishops-tell-church-of-england/

Was Islamophobia (and anti-Semitism) ever in control?

When hatred is controlled, the controller is always a terrifying force. It worries me that it is being harnessed again. We need to be vigilant about ensuring that nobody takes control of the surge of ill-feeling groups of fellow citizens. These are dangerous times in so many ways.

these are dangerous times

Yes, unfortunately I think they are.

maddyone

^these are dangerous times^

Yes, unfortunately I think they are.

Yes, dangerous enough for Rishi to recognise what is bubbling up and to make a direct speech.
(Though the content is being discussed on another thread). The PM obviously isn't blind to information from the security forces.

After various tory MPs have been feeding Islamophobia with little or no comeback from their leader I find his speech a bit weird.

I trust that 'police action' in respect of demos doesn't escalate, for reasons I've given somewhere recently (can't remember which thread). Unless Sunak is actively wanting riots to 'prove' he's right...

Why are people saying Muslims and Islamists as though interchangeable? Even Anderson makes a distinction.

Urmstongran

Why are people saying Muslims and Islamists as though interchangeable? Even Anderson makes a distinction.

Would you care to explain?

Surely it’s self explanatory by now? It’s been repeated often enough.

MaizieD

After various tory MPs have been feeding Islamophobia with little or no comeback from their leader I find his speech a bit weird.

I trust that 'police action' in respect of demos doesn't escalate, for reasons I've given somewhere recently (can't remember which thread). Unless Sunak is actively wanting riots to 'prove' he's right...

I see it more as asking the police to not turn a blind eye to trouble makers or those using hate speech or jumping around on cenotaphs, using laser images on Westminster buildings, wearing anything or shouting anything in support of hamas.
Peaceful protest only.

And take the bluddy loudhailers off them!

Oreo

MaizieD

After various tory MPs have been feeding Islamophobia with little or no comeback from their leader I find his speech a bit weird.

I trust that 'police action' in respect of demos doesn't escalate, for reasons I've given somewhere recently (can't remember which thread). Unless Sunak is actively wanting riots to 'prove' he's right...

I see it more as asking the police to not turn a blind eye to trouble makers or those using hate speech or jumping around on cenotaphs, using laser images on Westminster buildings, wearing anything or shouting anything in support of hamas.
Peaceful protest only.

You see it how you like, Oreo.

I see containment and a situation which could very quickly degenerate into rioting, putting peaceful protestors, bystanders and the police at great risk.

We've seen plenty of riots in the UK and they are not desirable things to encourage. Though, I'm a sure a riot would delight all the right wing bigots and give the already over authoritarian government a grand chance to crack down even more on citizen's freedoms.

Urmstongran

Surely it’s self explanatory by now? It’s been repeated often enough.

What is your understanding of Islamism?

Urmstongran

Surely it’s self explanatory by now? It’s been repeated often enough.

Please repeat it again-humour me.

Now why do I get the impression you two ladies are trying to set a trap for me to walk into?

Urmstongran

Now why do I get the impression you two ladies are trying to set a trap for me to walk into?

I'm not, but I googled the word and there are a number of definitions. I wondered which one you understand.

Upon considering an answer it seems best to quote from an internet search ‘explain difference between a Muslim and an Islamist’.

“ At the most basic level, Islam is a major world religion practiced by well over a billion people, and Islamism is a political ideology to which a subset of the broader Islamic community adheres. The importance of this distinction seems fairly clear.

Islam and Islamism: A Primer for Teachers and Students - Foreign Policy Research Institute.

I have decided that I am Islam-IST-ophobic and I'd like to know if anyone thinks I should not be.

So what is this political ideology all about?