Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

Good points foxie.

Mattress are much more complex than the headlines. Hamas, after the demise of the effectiveness of the PLO in 2004 was a very wide ranging group or groups. They are actually the only elected civil authority in Palestine. The very militant wing grew due to conditions in Palestine - and I cannot support the armed militants on either side. There is a great deal more to the situation than obvious.

I googled "what do Hamas want" which gives a variety of information I strongly recommend it. Al Jazerra actually lists Hamas demands and proposals.

Including how many Palestinians don't want armed conflict or a very militant Hamas. (Just as there is opposition in Israel from many who disagree with heir own government.)

The greatest barrier to peace is of course ownership and occupation of Gaza. Its clear some in Israel want to continue the expansion into more Palestinian territory...as a permanent aim.

Matters not mattress in first paragraph.

"The US has drafted a new UN security council resolution calling for an “immediate ceasefire” in Gaza, amid mounting pressure on Israel to halt its military campaign and allow the delivery of substantial amounts of humanitarian aid into the Palestinian territory."
Guardian

I think the UK will fall in line, not that it will make any difference to Netanyahu but it is a powerful statement by the US.

A ship carrying aid is approaching the Gaza coast let's hope it manages to deliver its cargo. Meanwhile Israel has announced it will begin actions in southern Rafah, after moving civilians to "safe humanitarian islands". Honestly how can they be permitted to behave as they are? The concentration camp that is Gaza is slowly shrinking.

Glorianny

A ship carrying aid is approaching the Gaza coast let's hope it manages to deliver its cargo. Meanwhile Israel has announced it will begin actions in southern Rafah, after moving civilians to "safe humanitarian islands". Honestly how can they be permitted to behave as they are? The concentration camp that is Gaza is slowly shrinking.

No reason it shouldn’t, the ship that arrived a few days ago off loaded it’s aid with no problems on the hastily made dock
Which was fabricated by locals, aid workers and IDF.

Retaliation and self protection is one thing but what is happening to Palestinians is way beyond that. To prevent food and aid from reaching so many is surely against the conventions of war.

I think the IDF will feel sure that aid arriving by boat from other states such as USA or the UK will not be transporting arms. Aid arriving by lorry presumably takes a lot of checking that arms are not being smuggled. I assume that this is the reason not so much goes in via lorry. Obviously via the sea is the way forward.
Or the hostages could be released.

James Elder of UNICEF was on the news this morning. He has no axe to grind but has visited Gaza. What he said he had seen was heartbreaking, "people living on the streets desperate for food, including children" he saw children who are just skin and bone. How anyone can think this is acceptable is totally beyond me.

I have just been to the UNICEF website and donated. Please, if you are as horrified as I am by what is happening to children in Gaza, could you make a donation?

foxie48 you asked the question How anyone can think this is acceptable is totally beyond me.

I do not think anyone thinks the situation is acceptable, aid is getting through but not enough or quick enough.

America must just stop supporting Israel in any way whatsoever. No more money. No more arms. No more political support. Netanyahu must get the message.

And all this time the UK has been selling arms to Israel. How can we expect the war to end

Russia and China have vetoed a US draft resolution that tied an immediate ceasefire in Gaza to the release of hostages held by Hamas. Political move obviously but the countries that stand with Israel now are Russia and China. I wonder how the average Israeli feels about that? Says it all really.

foxie48

Russia and China have vetoed a US draft resolution that tied an immediate ceasefire in Gaza to the release of hostages held by Hamas. Political move obviously but the countries that stand with Israel now are Russia and China. I wonder how the average Israeli feels about that? Says it all really.

In my opinion what it actually says is that Russia and China do not acknowledge the atrocities of 7/10/23 and therefore cannot and will not back any resolution which entails the release of hostages as this would be acknowledgment of the atrocities.

There are hostages on both sides.

Actually I think the politics are a lot more complicated than that GG13 Russia is accused of committing war crimes in Ukraine whilst it may be argued (and I would support that view) that the US has been supporting Israel in conducting war crimes in Gaza. fwiw The draft proposal put forward by Russia in December condemned the atrocities committed by Hamas as did the one which was voted on, which was put forward by the US. link
news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142817
There's a lot of murkiness here and both Russia and China will move to oppose the US in any way they can.

foxie48 yes, Russia will always oppose USA.

The US resolution at the UN did not call for a ceasefire. It recognised a ceasefire would be a good thing and therefore called for support for negotiations in Doha that have been going on for weeks.

Eight of the non-permanent members of the Security Council put an alternative position for the UN to "demand a ceasefire binding on all parties" to enable a process leading to a permanent ceasefire.

The US opposed the demand by the UN for a ceasefire. And it continues to oppose it.

It was a huge change in position for the US and was clearly linked to the current negotiations for a ceasefire. Diplomatic language, Netanyahu will have understood it but Russia in particular won't vote with the US. China? Perhaps but both countries have appalling humanitarian records. The bottom line is even if the resolution had been accepted, Israel will only comply if this current government is replaced with a more moderate one.

The US can turn the screw on Israel but who is able to turn the screw on Hamas? The UN votes were simply posturing. Neither side will take any notice.

If there is peace there would be no need for a Hamas as it is currently. Remember Hamas has a civil as well as an armed wing ie elected officials. since 2006 when they were first elected as a majority party support has increased.

Remember that Palestine is not yet recognised fully as a nation state by the UN as some countries continually block that possibility. It puts the Palestinians in a very helpless position.

One irony is as follows: (wiki)

"For decades the U.S. has pushed a two-state solution to the conflict in the Middle East but not formally recognised an independent Palestinian state."

(Why? I don't know)

Agree Willow. It doesn't make sense.

I did type Wyllow3 but my phone didn't believe I wanted that.

It’s an ideaology.There is peace here in the UK but Islamist extremists and terrorists still plan murder and mayhem.
Just read that BBC Verify has come under fire for using an anti Israel journalist possibly funded by Iran as their main source of news from Gaza. Says it all really.

There's accusations that CNN are pushing pro Israeli propaganda because of Mark Thompson, News editor in Chief and CEO. MT, when DG at the BBC was accused of bowing to Israeli govt pressure on a number of occasions (including removing a prominent BBC correspondent from her role in Jerusalem. There's accusations of bias on both sides. The answer of course is for Israel to give access to Gaza to journalists but when they do, they are closely monitored and only given access to what the Israeli govt decides is suitable so they are having to rely on people who are already in Gaza. There's a lot of misinformation and propaganda and I believe Israel is just as guilty of this as Hamas.