Is there anyone who still thinks that Israel's actions in Gaza are justifiable?

One soldier from a large number, evidence against the one soldier was -inadmissible , 14 died 12 injured, some were teenagers , they were on a peace march

All sorts happens in wars, including ‘friendly fire’.

Oreo

All sorts happens in wars, including ‘friendly fire’.

Bloody Sunday was not friendly fire. It has been deemed a war crime.

I wasn’t talking of Bloody Sunday.

It was a general observation, thinking about the IDF shooting the hostages.

maddyone

Hamas are never accused of war crimes, the reason given is that they are terrorists. Don’t terrorists commit war crimes? Can they not be held to account?
As I recall after the deadly 9/11 twin towers attack, the Americans invaded Afghanistan and didn’t stop until Bin Laden was dead. We helped as I recall.

Fat lot of good that did. And then, at the end of it we let down the Afghan people really badly, especially the women and those that had worked for us and were left behind. Some of whom are still trying to get here in boats to escape the Taliban.

Glorianny, I grew up in the North and people on both sides could report such incidents happening to them. Some people always take advantage of a divided situation. It doesn't make it right, but it happens in stressful situations, and where hate on both sides has been bred.
MayBee70, yes, Netanyahu is an unpopular leader and will be replaced. The situation re what happens between Israel and Palestine will still continue to exist with the new leader. If, as you suggest, he left the area unprotected perhaps the future answer is that you saturate your borders with armed troops. And perhaps follow the American way of arming the populace as well. Not a world I want to be in. Perhaps he thought they were safe because it was a mixed population and Hamas would go for a more right wing community. Never underestimate the thought processes of all those who seek absolute power. Whether he did or not, it does not lessen how horrific that Biblical massacre of October 7th was.

If war hasn’t been declared can something be a war crime? I seem to remember some discussion about this back in the recess of my mind. Not discussed on GN, more generalised discussion. Might have been to do with Ukraine, I’m not sure, but the question remains. Is it a war crime if war is not declared? I’m thinking about N. Ireland here in particular, but could be anywhere.

Quote Whitewavemark2 Sat 06-Apr-24 16:00:52
Oreo
All sorts happens in wars, including ‘friendly fire’.
Bloody Sunday was not friendly fire. It has been deemed a war crime.

A war crime ? 14 shot 12, injured No charges . Israeli army kills 7 aid workers and the world. is in uproar

maddyone

If war hasn’t been declared can something be a war crime? I seem to remember some discussion about this back in the recess of my mind. Not discussed on GN, more generalised discussion. Might have been to do with Ukraine, I’m not sure, but the question remains. Is it a war crime if war is not declared? I’m thinking about N. Ireland here in particular, but could be anywhere.

You could be right (I'm no lawyer). The soldier being prosecuted for his action on "Bloody Sunday" is going to be charged for murder.

I would imagine that if Israel can catch the people who carried out the atrocities on 7 October, they could be charged for murder too.

Anniebach

Quote Whitewavemark2 Sat 06-Apr-24 16:00:52
Oreo
All sorts happens in wars, including ‘friendly fire’.
Bloody Sunday was not friendly fire. It has been deemed a war crime.

A war crime ? 14 shot 12, injured No charges . Israeli army kills 7 aid workers and the world. is in uproar

There has been a charge.

I don’t disagree with you Maybee, re Afghanistan.
But the point I was making is that America went after the terrorists and didn’t stop till they got them.

And now the Taliban rule Afghanistan cruelly, just as Hamas rule Gaza cruelly.

Maybee70
The UK had no choice but to leave Afghanistan to the not so tender mercies of the taliban, as the US pulled out at speed.
It had been promised to the taliban by Donald Trump much earlier, but then the taliban decided to take matters into their own hands and were storming through the country.

The question is why don’t we hold terrorists to the same standard as we hold everyone else?

Undoubtedly Oreo the UK had no choice but to pullout fast after America decided to leave so suddenly, otherwise our troops would have been slaughtered.

Bacause they don't even pretend that they will pay any attention to us trying to hold them to account. We don't expect pirates to pay income tax on their booty either, for the same reason.

Whitewavemark2

People are getting muddled regarding Hamas and war crimes.

Armies are signed up to the Geneva convention, and are expected to adhere to the rules of war. Of course as has been suggested armies do break these rules and are often brought to account, and it is right that they are.

However, terrorists are not signed up to the Geneva convention and so can’t break the rules. To expect them to do so is a non-sequitur and the logic doesn’t follow.

I don’t think they are muddled. They just don’t like those facts

Fact, British Soldiers shot people on a peace March, 14 died 12 injured, the world wasn’t in uproar and no one faced trial

Fact members of IRA were imprisoned

So a terrorist organisation can cause the death of thousands and be unaccountable and if it wins the conflict can claim to be a legitimate government.

Not in my book it can’t a killer is a killer!, international law means nothing if it can’t be enforced. It’s all just talk because both sides believe in what they are doing, just like the soldiers on the front line they are prepared to make any sacrifice.

Annie, is anyone defending Bloody Sunday?

The aid workers - two were former Royal Marines. Many former service personnel have a strong sense of public service

Fact, one soldier was to face charges for the killing of the peace march on Bloody Sunday, in 2021 it was ruled evidence against him was inadmissible, where were the MP’s who are now attacking Israel

Katie not in my book either

fwiw three of Israel's PMs have been wanted for terrorism including murder. Mandela was convicted for complicity in the murder of Stompie Seipei . Happy to post links but as some people don't believe anything that is posted I can't see the point.

Anyone who knows much about Bloody Sunday will know the effect it had not just on NI but in Eire, the US and generally on how the army operated in NI. It did not go unnoticed, the US in particular was pretty vocal and lots of money was raised by catholics living in the US to support the IRA. The internet means we all have access to much more information, there's always someone with a phone filming so it's so much harder to spin a story. If Bloody Sunday happened now it would be headline news in every country that has any connection with the UK. so comparisons are pretty meaningless but Bloody Sunday is a stain on how the UK behaved in NI.