Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

What percentage of students didn't want to listen to KS? If it wasn't 100% why were those who would have heard her speak denied their right to do so?

IMO bringing the Klu Klux Klan and black students into the discussion is quite frankly ridiculous, as any reasonable person would be against such a hate filled organisation, regardless of the colour of their skin.

KS isn't saying that the trans community should be totally subservient, be given no rights and not be allowed to travel with, eat with and be educated with the rest of the population who aren't trans is she?

A tenant paying rent to their landlord is funding and providing money to maintain the property they live in, but that doesn't give them the right to vandalise that property with spray paint.

If they did so, they'd probably find themselves at the very least evicted and possibly prosecuted.

Glorianny

I have been wondering (and it really is a question so if there is evidence please post it) why if puberty blockers are prescribed for a 7 year old, who is going through puberty too early, and might be upset about it, is it wrong to prescribe them for a 13 year old who is going through puberty and is upset about it?

All thirteen-year-old are either going through puberty or will do in a very short time. It is a big change in their lives, and most find one aspect or another of it upsetting. Should every thirteen-year-old except those who are overjoyed about it be precribed medication to delay the inevitable?

Presume the prescription for 7 yr old was due to a medical condition that had to be treated. Not sure what you are referring to re 13 yr olds.

Are 7 year olds still being prescribed puberty blockers in the UK?

I know the Pentagon recommends it, but then, the US government thinks owning a gun at an early age is right.

Mollygo I found this page might be helpful
www.nhs.uk/conditions/early-or-delayed-puberty/
It seems there are reasons to treat rare cases medically for under age 8.

Mollygo

Another, not unexpected evasion there Glorianny.

Regardless of whether your house is a private building or not would you considerate it an act of vandalism if it was sprayed because somebody didn’t like something you said?

But it wasn't a house. And it wasn't sprayed because of something being said. It was sprayed because the University removed the posters that had been put up.

Glorianny

I have been wondering (and it really is a question so if there is evidence please post it) why if puberty blockers are prescribed for a 7 year old, who is going through puberty too early, and might be upset about it, is it wrong to prescribe them for a 13 year old who is going through puberty and is upset about it?

Children are rarely given puberty blockers even for precocious puberty but those that are, as I have said many times before, are kept on them for the shortest possible time, and carefully monitored throughout. They will not still be on them at 10 let alone 13, but will be going through a normal age appropriate puberty at the same time as their peers. Children suffering from body dysphoria are put on puberty blockers until they're of an age to commence cross sex hormones, bypassing the normal process of puberty. Puberty involves not only sexual development but brain development.

Keep evading Glorianny. I’ll save you the bigger.
Would you object if someone vandalised your house by spraying it, because something you did offended them?

Of course you would.

Bigger=bother

Rosie51

Glorianny

I have been wondering (and it really is a question so if there is evidence please post it) why if puberty blockers are prescribed for a 7 year old, who is going through puberty too early, and might be upset about it, is it wrong to prescribe them for a 13 year old who is going through puberty and is upset about it?

Children are rarely given puberty blockers even for precocious puberty but those that are, as I have said many times before, are kept on them for the shortest possible time, and carefully monitored throughout. They will not still be on them at 10 let alone 13, but will be going through a normal age appropriate puberty at the same time as their peers. Children suffering from body dysphoria are put on puberty blockers until they're of an age to commence cross sex hormones, bypassing the normal process of puberty. Puberty involves not only sexual development but brain development.

But if as many on these threads claim the gender problem is just a phase the child is passing through then surely the short term use of puberty blockers, along with counselling to alleviate the child's distress, and build a more positive attitude to the changes they will face would provide the best solution. There would be no need for long term use and the child would never need cross sex hormones.

Mollygo

Keep evading Glorianny. I’ll save you the bigger.
Would you object if someone vandalised your house by spraying it, because something you did offended them?

Of course you would.

But nobody sprayed anyone's house. It was university building.
Mind if Banksy wants to pop round I'd not mind!

But if as many on these threads claim the gender problem is just a phase the child is passing through then surely the short term use of puberty blockers, along with counselling to alleviate the child's distress, and build a more positive attitude to the changes they will face would provide the best solution. There would be no need for long term use and the child would never need cross sex hormones.
Do 'many on these threads' claim that? I don't think so. Certainly, as someone who is neither a child psychologist or an expert in child development I wouldn't dream of it. I would say, and have said that many adolescents 'try on' different identities, whether they are subcultural groups such as goths, rolling up skirts to emulate older girls (although I think it was you, Glorianny who brought that into it), flirting with same-sex relationships, experimenting with drugs or whatever. Nobody suggests delaying puberty and giving counselling for those things, unless a child is at risk of harm, eg drug addiction. It seems to me (as a non-expert) that delaying puberty is not going to help anyway, as it is going through puberty that allows hormones and brain development to settle down and the child becomes more adult. Anyway, the Cass report recommends that affirmation is not a good thing, and Hilary Cass is an expert, so I'd rather take her word.

In the interests of free speech would you expect black students to welcome a member of the Klu Klux Klan? Or would you expect them to demonstrate and refuse to listen?
Here we go again. This is the second time you have brought the KKK into a rebuttal of one of my posts. Ridiculous. Is this from the Alabama version of the TRA playbook? Why would the KKK want to speak at a UK university? And who would dream of inviting them? I would hope that in the unlikely event that men in white hoods turned up to speak to students there would be black students who would come and argue with them alongside their white friends and those of all ethnicities. Of course I would understand if they preferred not to, but in the same way as other minority groups have argued for equality (including women who fought for female spaces) it is showing up the weakness in arguments that persuades others - banning things really doesn't.

I have been wondering (and it really is a question so if there is evidence please post it). . .
So was your previous question about the KKK not a real one then? These dances are getting tedious.

Glorianny 🪱🪱🪱

I didn’t ask if you thought they were wrong to spray a public building. Only if you would consider it OK for people to damage your property if you said or did something they didn’t like. In the absence of a denial, I’ll accept that you would.

But if as many on these threads claim the gender problem is just a phase the child is passing through then surely the short term use of puberty blockers, along with counselling to alleviate the child's distress, and build a more positive attitude to the changes they will face would provide the best solution. There would be no need for long term use and the child would never need cross sex hormones.
To echo Doodledog Do 'many on these threads' claim that?
Ah counselling, that would be the counselling that the SNP amongst others are trying to ban, labelling it 'conversion therapy'?
I would agree with appropriate counselling, and support from family that they will get through this, but also tell them the truth that they have to go through puberty in order for their brains to mature. Puberty for the vast majority is the 'cure'. Preventing this natural body function happening does not resolve the dysphoria a child is feeling, and has in the past resulted in almost all going on to cross sex hormones. Puberty blockers are not a neutral act. How long are you going to keep your theoretical child on them, especially if they maintain they don't want to go through puberty?

Rosie51

^But if as many on these threads claim the gender problem is just a phase the child is passing through then surely the short term use of puberty blockers, along with counselling to alleviate the child's distress, and build a more positive attitude to the changes they will face would provide the best solution. There would be no need for long term use and the child would never need cross sex hormones.^
To echo Doodledog Do 'many on these threads' claim that?
Ah counselling, that would be the counselling that the SNP amongst others are trying to ban, labelling it 'conversion therapy'?
I would agree with appropriate counselling, and support from family that they will get through this, but also tell them the truth that they have to go through puberty in order for their brains to mature. Puberty for the vast majority is the 'cure'. Preventing this natural body function happening does not resolve the dysphoria a child is feeling, and has in the past resulted in almost all going on to cross sex hormones. Puberty blockers are not a neutral act. How long are you going to keep your theoretical child on them, especially if they maintain they don't want to go through puberty?

Well Glorianny you’ve actually shocked me with this one. So, we treat psychological despair and confusion with the short term use of powerful drugs,the long term impact of which remains unknown, then throw in counselling to alleviate the child’s distress. In what planet does this begin to meet the needs of children or their parents/carers

This could just as easily apply to the attempts of the likes of Stonewall to erase women.

Where is the evidence that
many on these threads claim the gender problem is just a phase the child is passing through

I can always tell when I've suggested something workable. The denials always include (as a polite term) inaccuracies.

There are always numerous posts on these threads from people who were "tomboys". You may not claim it Doodledog others do. It isn't affirmation to suggest a period of consideration.

Many children are on powerful drugs which there is little or no research about. The use of puberty blockers is approved for the negative effects of puberty on young children why not on older ones? It would not be a long term solution. This could be clearly explained and the child helped to deal with the issues if this is purely a stage in development. It may not be.

I can always tell when I've suggested something workable. The denials always include (as a polite term) inaccuracies.
Are you accusing me of inaccuracy? If so please detail it so I can address your point.

Many children are on powerful drugs which there is little or no research about. wow this is a powerful statement to make. Can you please provide evidence of the many children and the little or no researched drugs they're on?

But who are the ‘others’? Are they ‘Some People’? They were ‘many on these threads’ earlier.

We have explained - an actual expert has found that puberty blockers are a bad idea. Also it seems to me (as a non-expert) that delaying puberty is not going to help anyway, as it is going through puberty that allows hormones and brain development to settle down and the child becomes more adult. Anyway, the Cass report recommends that affirmation is not a good thing, and Hilary Cass is an expert, so I'd rather take her word.

Others have said similar.

Glorianny Are you now saying that all those tomboys were would-be trans? That’s an unreasonable, claim even for you.

Doodledog

But who are the ‘others’? Are they ‘Some People’? They were ‘many on these threads’ earlier.

We have explained - an actual expert has found that puberty blockers are a bad idea. Also it seems to me (as a non-expert) that delaying puberty is not going to help anyway, as it is going through puberty that allows hormones and brain development to settle down and the child becomes more adult. Anyway, the Cass report recommends that affirmation is not a good thing, and Hilary Cass is an expert, so I'd rather take her word.

Others have said similar.

There are claims that the Cass report had an agenda to fulfil that the conservatives would support. They succeeded . We still have a huge problem that those with gender dysphoria will now get no treatment or therapy because none has been set up .

Actually the concerns about puberty blockers were pre Cass, and were appearing in other European countries.
The claim that Hilary Cass was politically motivated is a serious allegation.

And again a complete lack of understanding of the history of this, the conservatives may be reverse ferreting now, as are many, but they have overseen what has happened, it was under their watch.

Galaxy

Actually the concerns about puberty blockers were pre Cass, and were appearing in other European countries.
The claim that Hilary Cass was politically motivated is a serious allegation.

Actually the concerns about puberty blockers were pre Cass, and were appearing in other European countries.

... which a little judicious research on the 'net will confirm.

European countries have basically had a systemic review of them because the supporting guidelines are based on questionable evidence. I read about this almost year ago.