This, from Suzanne Moore today in The Telegraph:
“ When Dr Hilary Cass was commissioned to report on standards of care within the NHS, it was as if finally an adult had stepped into the room. She and her team have looked at the evidence and practices that have evolved the affirmative model (designed to support and affirm an individual’s gender identity) and found much wanting. She also signalled the high levels of comorbidities with gender dysphoria. A high proportion of girls who did not want to be girls were autistic. Many had troubled childhoods or had been in care. Many were gay. All of this resulted in the unravelling of Gids and a ban on puberty blockers.
In the full report, due to be published this week, Cass is not only concerned with medical intervention but is also expected to come out against “social transition”. This is not something that happens within the health service, but it is, she says, an “active intervention because it may have significant effects on the child or young person in terms of psychological functioning. There are different views on the benefits versus the harms of early social transition… it is not a neutral act and better information is needed about outcomes.”
Some believe that socially transitioning kids locks them into an identity and medical pathway that is detrimental. Cass says that gender expression is indeed fluid and changeable for adolescents and that many may take till their mid-20s to settle. In other words, leave these kids alone.”
Maybe, just maybe, we are turning a corner regarding this topic. I hope so.
Iam64
It’s tedious to be constantly and treated as though none of us are aware of the risks associated with drugs like Ritalin. We are parents, grandparents, teachers, social workers. , therapists, camhs workers . Because we don’t share the minority view here doesnt mean we are wrong
Perhaps you and Rosie51 should discuss that. She seems to think all drugs given to children are researched and the risks known.
Glorianny
Just because something was done does not mean it must or will be done.
It is so interesting how any attempt to deal with the issue is rejected with really unfounded and desperate attempts to prove there isn't a solution.
These children are not going to go away. Trans issues will continue to be there. There is now no real support for children in England. Some will no doubt be taken abroad for treatment, some will access private treatment, some will use the dark web and will be given god knows what, which they will probably share with their friends. But you seem quite happy that nothing will be done. I suppose it makes many of you feel better claiming that the root cause is transactivism. Then you can pretend that things will get better, when it's obvious they won't.
Oh come on, get real! Can you honestly say there would have been any change in the Tavistock's approach without the Cass review? Whistleblowers and anybody who challenged what they were doing were rounded on. David Bell and Sonia Appleby for starters.
Many of us have been advocating for a wait and see approach, accompanied by counselling and support. None of us advocated for a do nothing approach, and let them sink or swim. You are disgraceful making these unfounded allegations, but then it is a known tactic of transactivists.
That some parents will take their children abroad for treatment isn't new, Susie Green took her young son to America to get puberty blockers and then to Thailand to have surgery for a 16th birthday present. She's also on video laughing with another woman how inverting his penis was difficult because "there wasn't much to work with" Well no, not having gone through puberty the penis was child sized, not man sized.
Glorianny
Iam64
It’s tedious to be constantly and treated as though none of us are aware of the risks associated with drugs like Ritalin. We are parents, grandparents, teachers, social workers. , therapists, camhs workers . Because we don’t share the minority view here doesnt mean we are wrong
Perhaps you and Rosie51 should discuss that. She seems to think all drugs given to children are researched and the risks known.
Could you stop with the lies. That's more than tedious. I have never said all drugs given to children are researched and the risks known. You on the other hand think it's fine to let young children consent to treatments when they can't possibly understand the full implications.
M0nica
All you have to say is that someone is 'politically motivated'
It is a form of McCarthyism, that flourished in the USA in the 1950s, all you had to do was accuse someone of being a communist and despite any evidence behind the accusation, you were branded, your career destroyed and many were forced into exile.
I am going to suggest that Syracute is politically motivated making the claim he/she has made against Dr Cass.
What a ridiculous comparison ! I happened to read an article about this subject and it was mentioned there and it certainly bears thinking about . Science is often bent to fit an ideology . You don’t have to wonder there is a minority of people who are giving an alternate opinion to Cass’s report as you would soon be circled by those that don’t believe in supporting the idea that some children don’t identify as their birth sex . My biggest problem is that there now exists no help for these children and they will be left with nowhere to turn as no other alternative is now available . That’s simply wrong !
It is simply wrong to say that there will be no help for them.
Read NHS England's Response to the Final Report of the Independent Rreview of Gender Services to Children and Young People.
www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
Syracute produce the verified evidence that Dr Hilary Cass was politically motivated and I will agree that you are not politically motivated.
As things stand both claims are on an equal basis as being totally unverified.
Glorianny
Doodledog
Well quite, Iam, but when defending a point of view that has been proven wrong (eg that puberty blockers and binders are fully reversible and harmless) every passing straw has to be clutched. If we all start discussing the Japanese education system it might detract from the more relevant question of academic freedom and its importance in a democracy.
I have never said they were fully reversible I have said that for some children they offer a breathing space and a way of adjusting and feeling more comfortable with their body. But there is some evidence that there are children who have stopped taking them and not transitioned
Hmmmm.
Elegran
It is simply wrong to say that there will be no help for them.
Read NHS England's Response to the Final Report of the Independent Rreview of Gender Services to Children and Young People.
www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
The truth is at the moment there is no help . The clinics are not built and there will be not enough, if any qualified staff. Being that many children’s mental health will be neglected is not good enough.
What is happening in the USA, Syracute, as a comparison?
Elegran
It is simply wrong to say that there will be no help for them.
Read NHS England's Response to the Final Report of the Independent Rreview of Gender Services to Children and Young People.
www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/
None of the clinics have opened. None have a proposed opening date. You are advised to add your child to the waiting list and consult CAMHs if they are distressed. There are 250,000 children on the waiting lists already. Some children have waited two years for an appointment
www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/blog/over-a-quarter-of-a-million-children-still-waiting-for-mental-health-support/#:~:text=Shocking%20new%20statistics%20show%20that,for%20England%20has%20revealed%20today.
Now trans children will join them.
It really is completely unacceptable.
Glorianny,
The shortage of mental health places is indeed unacceptable. I’ve agreed that before.
Are you advocating irrevocable drug and surgery treatment of minors until places are available?
Are you saying one group of children is more deserving of a higher place on the waiting list than another?
Callistemon21
What is happening in the USA, Syracute, as a comparison?
Callistemon, I suspected I might be missing the point. Thanks.
Caleo
Callistemon, I suspected I might be missing the point. Thanks.
👍
But so do I!!
Crikey Scotland has paused puberty blockers.
Great news.
Galaxy
Crikey Scotland has paused puberty blockers.
But they are still considering making it a criminal offence to treat or advise people (including children) wishing to transition, without affirming that wish - thus prejudging the issue and consolidating the wish before it has been discussed and assessed. This would apply also to parents and teachers, putting them in an impossible position.
Yes, I think a good decision...but...as with England, banning them without providing support and help for young people who may have asked for them but are unsupported in discussing their situations is truly only implementing part of what the Cass report requires.
Agreed. The problem is that there is not enough support or counselling across the board for people who need it. I don’t know if this comes under mental health or not (I think that is controversial) but there is a woeful lack of funding for that.
I agree its controversial always coming under Mental Health - any kind of gender /sexual relationship difficulties have historically always been funded by that are of the NHS.
I couldn't find a good summary of information about the UK but in the USA begin gay was considered a psychiatric condition and gender continues to be "under its auspices" as in their classification as follows
LGBT and the DSM
DSM-I (1952) – Homosexuality is listed as a sociopathic personality disturbance.
DSM-II (1968) – Homosexuality continues to be listed as a mental disorder
DSM-II (1974) – Homosexuality is no longer listed as a category of disorder. The diagnosis is replaced with the category of “sexual orientation disturbance”.
DSM-III (1980) – The diagnosis of ego-dystonic homosexuality replaces the DSM-II category of “sexual orientation disturbance.”Introduces gender identity disorder.
DSM-III-R (1987) – Ego-dystonic homosexuality is removed and replaced by “sexual disorder not otherwise specified,” which can include “persistent and marked distress about one’s sexual orientation.”
DSM-V – Includes a separate, non-mental disorder diagnoses of gender dysphoria to describer people who experience significant distress with the sex and gender they were assigned at birth.
It does come under camhs Doodkedog, as it should. A child presenting with an eating disorder for example, should have a detailed psychological/or psychiatric assessment. So should a child presenting with body dysmorphia.
No one can defend the dreadful state of services for children and families ftom any of the agencies that are supposed to support them
The glee with which Some Posters state they without the Tavistock there are No Services is unsurprising
I agree CAMHS is the right agency Iam in the current situation. problem is MH services have always been relatively underfunded compared with other parts of the NHS and atm in crisis. Given this situation the Cass report is not "job done" just because it bans puberty blockers - I think Cass should have gone further in how it should be funded and when.
Absolutely agree Wyllow3 as I said, no one can defend the dreadful state of our mh services for children (or adults). .i don’t believe advising the government on how and when services for children with body dysmorphia should be funded and how
I’m certain Dr Cass could make those recommendations. I expect she shares the anger and despair
We feel
I'm not disagreeing that the job is not done, but as Iam says, all children (and adults, for that matter) with MH problems need to get help - I can't see why the closing of the Tavistock means that this particular issue should be prioritised when children with all sorts of problems are waiting. I'm not saying it should be ignored or pushed to the back, either, for avoidance of doubt.
I think that if the advice for adults in positions of influence to stop affirming gender change is followed, and puberty blockers are not allowed, there will be fewer problems. Obviously I can't be sure about this, as even experts disagree, but it seems to me that there must be an element of mass hysteria behind this, as the numbers of children saying they are 'in the wrong body' have grown so exponentially.
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