Dr. Hilary Cass - report re trans.

No, I wouldn't want identifiable data made public, but there is no obvious reason why data couldn't be anonymised, is there? It's perfectly usual in medical information to say that X% of smokers get lung disease, for instance, without saying that Ms D Dog of 7 Acacia Avenue Hometown smoked 20 a day for 50 years and died aged 64 of emphysema, is there?

Many medical papers are anonymised and this could easily be done in this case, as I am sure you are aware.

Being told to go to Cahms or mental health services is a joke as they are not able to cope with those already on their waitlists

This is true for all mental health patients and it’s causing immense stress for all of them.
I’m just checking; Are you saying that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue?

Glorianny

Dickens

... do you believe Cass is recommending conversion therapy?

Probably not. But I think it is extremely foolish to not include any reference to studies which perhaps present a different point of view. Even if the study was flawed actually mentioning it would show a more balanced approach. I notice as well that. no trans people were included on the team making the report.
"Fairness must not only be done, it must be seen to be done."

Trans advocates agree with Dr Cass that waits should be shorter and better mental health care provision is needed, and approve of her call for more local services. They, like her, accept that there will “be a small number of young people for whom a medical pathway is the right pathway”. But before giving young people drugs, Dr Cass asks NHS medics to consider alternative interventions, especially for those with “existing mental health problems and neurodiversity”. That seems uncontroversial, though the numbers waiting for mental health treatments dwarf those in gender-affirming care.

This is from an editorial in The Guardian.

What, exactly, is wrong with considering alternative interventions especially for those with existing mental health problems and neurodiversity?

And I believe that Dr Trilby Langton is a former Clinical Psychologist at the Tavistock GIDS - one of the Review Team members.

Glorianny

M0nica

Doodledog I would add that we cannot always have something just because we want it. My DGD a very good and talented ballet dance has had to accept that no matter how good her dancing her physique is entirely unsuitable for being a ballet dancer. At leat she has accepted it and not turned to starving herself in the irrational belief that that if she lost weight suddenly her broad shoulders, and wide back would shrink also.

All of us have to learn to know our limitations

M0nica please tell your GD not to give up. There is a movement now to be more inclusive and to abandon the skinny ballerina model, which is a comparatively recent idea.
www.dancemagazine.com/ballet-body/
Modern dance has become more inclusive already. Ballet is starting to be.

... this article is interesting too. Also from Dance Magazine.

www.dancemagazine.com/the-cult-of-thin

Ballet still has a long way to go, but it’s encouraging that so many in the field are calling for change. “Dance should celebrate our humanity,” says Alberta Ballet artistic director Jean Grand-Maître, “and not be an artificial ideal imposed upon us by individuals frightened by what constitutes the natural shapes of the feminine physique.”

Hurrah to that!

Even the bins are at it

Glorianny She is not giving up on dancing, just focussing on other performance talents she has. Dancing will always be a core factor in her life, and probably her career.

M0nica

Glorianny She is not giving up on dancing, just focussing on other performance talents she has. Dancing will always be a core factor in her life, and probably her career.

That's great. There are some great independent companies including all sorts of people in dance now. There's a company called Ballet Lorent which has pregnant women dancing and women dancing with their babies. It's wonderful to see. All the best to your GD.

Doodledog

No, I wouldn't want identifiable data made public, but there is no obvious reason why data couldn't be anonymised, is there? It's perfectly usual in medical information to say that X% of smokers get lung disease, for instance, without saying that Ms D Dog of 7 Acacia Avenue Hometown smoked 20 a day for 50 years and died aged 64 of emphysema, is there?

Many medical papers are anonymised and this could easily be done in this case, as I am sure you are aware.

I am aware. I am also aware that even that even anonymised data cannot be used unless the patient has agreed to be part of the research. Given the negative attitudes many have to transpeople I can understand their reluctance to be involved in any way.

Well, obviously neither of us can speak for them, can we? Are you aware of the reluctance you mention? It would be odd if so, as opting out is also anonymous.

But I can see no reason why someone would refuse to co-operate anonymously with research into something that could potentially benefit them.

If trans people desire a better understanding of their concerns then obviously they need to co operate with research.

My understanding was that the clinic refused to contact patients on behalf of the study to gain permission for follow up information to be gathered, even anonymised. Cass wasn't asking for names and addresses.

Excellent point eazybee.

There is a need for social support for children ,and adults too, who are troubled by any feelings that are deemed by others to be unacceptable.

Not all parents, peers, and schools are supportive . Some children get rejected even by their mothers and fathers. Religious sects may be especially condemnatory. Childline is good and there is a need for this sort of intervention to be extended to safe housing, safe trains and buses, safe classsrooms, safe hotels and toilets, safe policing, safe employment and educational opportunities, and so forth.

Transiting is a burden for a child to bear and some children urgently need practical help such as I described.

Research under conditions of strict decency and respect is very well but some trans people get asked about their private genitals! Imagine if cisgenders were expected to tell researchers what their genitalia looked like!

Terms such as Cisgender is part of the religion. It's why we are in this situation in the first place.

Caleo

There is a need for social support for children ,and adults too, who are troubled by any feelings that are deemed by others to be unacceptable.

Exactly Caleo. So many females have feelings that are deemed to be unacceptable by those determined to put men first.

Feelings of anxiety about their own safety.

Feelings of concern about the safety of children who have been rushed into irreversible changes to their bodies without fully understanding the future implications for their lives.

Feelings of anger about the actions of those TIM who cheat to deprive females of their just rewards.

But those children and adults with those feelings are shouted down by the trans lobby as being transphobic, or attacked, threatened or hounded by TRA.

Where is your call for support for them Caleo, or don’t they matter for you, because they are female?

Rosie51

My understanding was that the clinic refused to contact patients on behalf of the study to gain permission for follow up information to be gathered, even anonymised. Cass wasn't asking for names and addresses.

Yes, that's what I thought, too.

It's just wriggling. As I said, there is no sensible reason why anyone would refuse to co-operate with research that could potentially benefit them. It would be perverse. And how any poster here can know that transpeople opted out of being included in research is beyond me.

Galaxy

Terms such as Cisgender is part of the religion. It's why we are in this situation in the first place.

Hear, hear

Caleo

Research under conditions of strict decency and respect is very well but some trans people get asked about their private genitals! Imagine if cisgenders were expected to tell researchers what their genitalia looked like!

Please stop it with the ‘cisgender’ !
It’s entirely relevant for trans people to be honest about their genitals surely.

Please stop it with the ‘cisgender’ !
Absolutely. This is what I meant about try trans lobby using words to control the narrative. If we refer to people as either 'cis' or 'trans' we are buying into the fiction that sex is an option. It really isn't.

Sorry about the jargon !

It is wrong to expect anyone at all to discuss what their genitals look like.

---------------

Actually, since modern medicine discovered plastic surgery, and the Pill .sex change is an option.

Mollygo wrote:
"Where is your call for support for them Caleo, or don’t they matter for you, because they are female?"

'Whataboutery', Mollygo, is ad hominem .

No one can change sex. Building treatment on a lie is also part of the problem. It is a cruel thing to tell people.

No it isn’t, Caleo!! You can change gender, although some people prefer to declare that they have done so rather than put any serious effort into the very difficult process, but no matter how much plastic surgey or hormones you have, your chromosomes will ALWAYS stay the same! They declare your sex and cannot be changed. Ever.