Another Tired Kicking For The Sick And Disabled By Rishi

Oh, yes, let's do something about all those who are off sick. But let's not bother with silly stuff like looking at what's actually going on, why so many people are distressed and poorly - no, let's coerce, deprive and if necessary starve them and push them onto the street. Sorted!

I don't doubt that, zakouma, but if someone is in that state they shouldn't be able to sign off and claim a salary for months at a time, which is what my colleague did on several occasions. I'm in no way saying that they should be thrown to the wolves, but it should be recognised that a stressful job is not something they can do, and they should be helped to find something more suitable.

As it is, people like my colleague add to the stress of others, and in the end I took early retirement as I couldn't carry on doing her job as well as my own. She stayed on, but AFAIK still takes a lot of time off on full pay. She miraculously gets better again when her full pay runs out, and by an amazing coincidence that is timed to coincide with the spring, so she takes all the leave accrued when she was off sick, then it is the summer when our workplace was very quiet, so she clocks up time back at work then, which counts towards her right to sick pay when the cycle begins again. She did it for years. It's very unfair.

The suffergetts fought to get women the RIGHT to vote. So we also have the right to not vote if that's how we feel.

Germanshepherdsmum

Is expecting those who can do so to work for a living nasty?

No it’s not!

lalta

i agree with everything said on here, but it makes my blood boil when i see people faking sick notes and i know loads of people working and claiming everything they can get pretending to be seperated so they can get seperate housing and live there and rent there original house out etc i own a business and pay taxes and think thats my money going to you doctors just give out sick notes without even checking they just do phone appointment and send fit note by text i does need to be sorted out as not fair on the genuine people who really need the help

I’m with GSM if you know what these people are doing and who they are then report them! I have done so in the past and would do again! I did check out the evidence very carefully first as it’s not nice to be reported then investigated.

I have worked at schools and colleges. Each seemed to have one or two malingerers. Unfortunately they are not the ones bothered by pressure to work reasonably. An example..one art teacher in a comprehensive who had very frequent sick days. One day when off sick he phoned another teacher during the teaching day to ask could he skip out of teaching to go and play badminton with him. At the same time my friend, an English subject teacher, was diagnosed with terminal cancer. ILEA decided to clamp down on absenteeism in London. Both were summoned for a special medical review. My friend was worried sick and attended the interview. The other teacher called in the union and somehow ducked the issue. So there are genuinely sick people and also skyvers.

Doodledog, that sounds very annoying to be around.

In my past decade of working, I came across too many people who could imo be said to be exploiting our long term sickness benefits. Confidentiality meant this assessment couldn’t be shared with the dwp

Germanshepherdsmum
Other benefits can be paid on top of carers allowance and of course some carers do work.

I was in receipt of carers allowance and income support for many years while providing 24/7 care for a close family member with a severe learning disability and complex physical problems.

The carers allowance was deducted in its entirety from the income support. It was still worth claiming as it entitles the recipient to a carer’s national insurance credit towards the state pension.

Very true Wiser. And the skivers need be sorted from the genuinely too sick or disabled to work. How to do that, when some have been successfully faking their sickness or disability for years, is another matter.

I'm amazed at some of the comments on here. There are a lot, a very big lot, of people who treat the welfare state as life choice. Call them workshy, lazy of whatever phrase you wish, but there are a lot if them out there. And before you get on your high horse, I don't mean the genuinely sick and disabled. In fact the disabled and chronically ill work as and when they are able, but please acknowledge the fact that there are those who live very nicely on overblown benefits and won't change unless forced to!

Well, I’m definitely going to vote.

My grandmother was a suffragette. I won’t repeat history.

We must get this lot out or the alternative is unthinkable.

There are genuine sick people but there are also those that can spend all day on social media but say they cannot spend all day on a laptop working from home.

There are also too many people only prepared to work 16 hours a week and rely on UC to top up there income.

I'm genuinely puzzled how many posters know so many who are faking illness.

I think I've met a couple in my working life, but that's about it.

If anyone knows, as they say they do, "loads" of people who are pretending to be sick when they are not - do they report them? Because, if there are that many - they jolly well should!

I only know two young people who are working spasmodically. One is quite poorly and her father thinks she has a particular autoimmune disease (from a medic in the family) but can't get a GP appointment for her until the end of May, to confirm the diagnosis and, more importantly, start treatment for it.

I don't quite know what's wrong with the other one, she does look unwell, but makes it into work as often as she can.

If I were Sunak, I'd be rather embarrassed to lunge into the rhetoric about sick-note culture without addressing any of the issues surrounding the lack of GP appointments, and the often very long waiting lists for any kind of treatment.

I thought he was more intelligent - but he's just turned out to be yet another populist politician. He must, surely, understand cause-and-effect?

I suffered with severe depression in the 70s - though oddly enough, I didn't identify it myself, I just knew that something was terribly wrong and even thought I might be going mad. However, there was a support network, timely appointments, and suitable treatment easily available. All which enabled me to get back on my feet quite quickly.

That's certainly not the case now.

Theexwife

There are genuine sick people but there are also those that can spend all day on social media but say they cannot spend all day on a laptop working from home.

There are also too many people only prepared to work 16 hours a week and rely on UC to top up there income.

I don't think the 16 hour rule applies any more. Eligibility depends on earnings, not hours worked.

Remploy was closed. The large special hospitals closed. The big factories and mills closed. The opportunities for unskilled work diminished. There will always be members of our society who need the security provided by the welfare state. I worry that vulnerable people will be easy targets

We have increasing numbers of people who are dependent on drugs/ alcohol so unfit to work. They get higher benefits as long term sick than people who find themselves unemployed. They often have physical as well as mental health related problems. Becoming sober is a real challenge to anyone especially those with poor life quality . No easy answers here but real anger and despair that this government shut down services that might support people then go after them so aggressively

Dilys

I'm amazed at some of the comments on here. There are a lot, a very big lot, of people who treat the welfare state as life choice. Call them workshy, lazy of whatever phrase you wish, but there are a lot if them out there. And before you get on your high horse, I don't mean the genuinely sick and disabled. In fact the disabled and chronically ill work as and when they are able, but please acknowledge the fact that there are those who live very nicely on overblown benefits and won't change unless forced to!

Having worked in outreach for four years, in claimants homes, I can assure you very few people actually “live nicely” on “overblown” benefits. Most especially single people, care leavers and those living away from their parents aged 25 and under.

There are a small minority of families, and single people literally “fiddling” the system and living well.

For whatever reason some families are living such chaotic unstable lives, some with children not in school full time, or attending special units just a few hours a day, mum or dad absent for a myriad of reasons, including addiction or in prison, or having overwhelming mental health issues, many of these people grew up in deprived families, went to poor schools and simply didn’t have the life chances many of us take for granted.

I hate to use this expression, but there’s a whole hidden “underclass” of people that many “normal” people just never even know about.

These people are a far cry from the people the media portray, who are very much in the minority, who quite rightly should be called out, and heavily penalised for defrauding the system.

I speak as someone who worked within our welfare system from 2009 to 2022 and watched services being systematically cut, along with the introduction of benefit caps, leaving a whole cohort of people struggling.

Btw the 16 hour rule does NOT apply under UC and anyone on PAYE simply cannot play the system any more as there is a direct feed from HMRC every month into UC. It’s the amount you earn not the hours worked.

How do people on here know about thousands and thousands of people who are invisible? Trapped at home, no networks , no nothing.

Still if it makes you feel better to attack the weak and vulnerable, so be it.

Cossy

Btw the 16 hour rule does NOT apply under UC and anyone on PAYE simply cannot play the system any more as there is a direct feed from HMRC every month into UC. It’s the amount you earn not the hours worked.

For every pound you earn UC goes down by 55p so for many it is still worth working only 16 hours. Claimants of UC are only required to look for work for 16 hours a week.

Are those capable of full time work only required to search for 16 hours a week of work? That equates to three hours a day. And then presumably they still claim UC if they are doing a part time minimum wage? That’s dreadful.

If you are able and available to work
You will need to do everything you reasonably can to give yourself the best chance of finding work. You will be expected to spend the number of hours agreed on your claimant commitment preparing for and getting a job. If you do not do this without a good reason you may receive a sanction.

If you currently have limited capability for work, related to a disability or health condition, but this is expected to change over time.

You will be supported until your circumstances improve and you can work. You will be expected to prepare for work so far as you are able.

This is from the gov.uk website.

If a person isn't working, they will be expected to spend 35 hours a week job hunting, and to submit proof of doing so.

Germanshepherdsmum

Are those capable of full time work only required to search for 16 hours a week of work? That equates to three hours a day. And then presumably they still claim UC if they are doing a part time minimum wage? That’s dreadful.

I think the problem for some is that if they are doing the type of job that does not guarantee set hours, they have difficulty in finding another that fits in with it.

This is a problem a friend's daughter has. She has managed to secure a part-time job with regular hours - but has been offered other work where she has to be available when the employer wants her - which frequently conflicts with the times she's already working. And I think this is part of the problem for some in the labour market today (ultimately, she wants a full-time job suited to her qualifications, but has not been able to secure one).

Work has changed so much. When I was unemployed in the 70s, it was only for one week, because there were so many jobs on offer... full-time, with reasonable salaries. I started 'temping' which ultimately led to a prestigious job in a fantastic company.

That doesn’t sound very realistic! There’s only so much time you can spend looking for a job, surely. How do you prove how much time you’ve spent looking for a job?