I received yesterday's email from Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper, "Israel at war: What you need to know – day 200". There was an article about a recent poll done in Israel and I found the results quite heartening. Most Israeli Jews want Gaza to be handed over to an International force, 13% thought the Palestinian Authority should take back control and less than 25% want to take it over to create Israeli settlements. Hopefully this shows that although the far right Zionists like Ben-Givr and Smotrich are very influential in determining the direction of Netanyahu's government, their desire for expansion is not supported by most Israelis. I've mentioned this before but it's easy to sign up for the Haaretz email and it often includes things that are not mentioned in either the British or US media. Any thoughts, surely this vile war has to stop at some time.
Just want to say I appreciate this thread with detailed discussion on realities going forward.
You are right growstuff that Israel was not some easy peaceful transition, terrorists on both sides active and events like the King David Hotel Bombing en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
Katie59
“No international force is going to pour billions into Gaza and the West Bank without something in return, which could be political power and a say what happens in the region. Israel distrusts the UN, so any grouping would have to be politically and ideologically neutral and be respected. I really can't think of any countries which would be acceptable to Israel and Palestine. The US and Europe haven't exactly coveredthemselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”
The one, possibly the only country willing to spend money is the US, not for tangible gain but to keep the peace, that’s pretty much what they are doing now. As you say I really dont see any foreign country wanting to get involved in policing Gaza or indeed the West Bank, the moderates on both sides have got to work together for peace.
I really can't see that happening, especially if Trump does win the election.
Oreo
foxie48
maddyone
Oreo
Of course most Israelis don’t want to take over or live in Gaza, they want to live peacefully in Israel.
It’s not surprising tho, that they want Gaza to be handed over to an International Force rather than the Palestinian Authority.This.
The majority do but unfortunately that is not true of them all or there would not have been a very significant number of illegal settlements in the West Bank or groups planning settlements in Gaza. I'm sure you are aware of this, it has been widely reported.
That’s why I used the word most
I’m as aware as anyone else what has been reported but a few blowhards dreaming of a luxury apartment by the sea in Gaza fortunately don’t get to set their agenda.
Nobody knows that yet.
"The US and Europe haven't exactly covered themselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”
Oh so true Katie.
Yes, I think Biden is managing to steer the US through complex matters atm and hope there is no regime change there.
Just seen this report on ITV news, he begs international observers to come in to see for themselves. (He's a British doctor working for international agency)
www.itv.com/news/2024-04-24/i-operated-without-anaesthetic-british-surgeons-harrowing-gaza-account
Wyllow3
"The US and Europe haven't exactly covered themselves in glory by treating the Middle East as an oil field with populations who don't matter.”
Oh so true Katie.
Yes, I think Biden is managing to steer the US through complex matters atm and hope there is no regime change there.
The West, including the UK has exploited resources of other countries for centuries without much benefit to the local population. Our lifestyle today has been built on exploiting other poorer countries, our public services depend on continuing that exploitation. Today the big exploiter is China which is even worse because they do not try to influence local politics. This has resulted in most of the resource revenue being pocketed by corrupt governments and not improving lives of the population.
For what it’s worth I would be surprised if Trump actually contests let alone wins the US election, the court action will certainly erode his voters and likely see him convicted, the odds are stacking against him.
I’m suspicious of the move away from oil,too. Global warming ? Maybe. Maybe not.
Could be the same British doctor who said in January how he
had to operate on a small child half her face blown away , there
was no anaesthetic yet he amputated both legs,this was posted
by a regular on GransNet.
Hamas claims yet again
I have been listening to the ex-heads of MI5 and MI6.
Both agree that Israeli have overreacted in Gaza to their detriment.
Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.
They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.
Whitewavemark2
Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.
They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.
We underestimate the amount of surveillance activity the security services do to keep us safe in the UK. Without them we would probably have terrorist attacks every week.
Katie59
Whitewavemark2
Both heads of security services also emphasised the risk that Muslim agents and U.K. spies daily risk their lives to keep the U.K. safe.
They suggested that without these brave people help our lives would be far less secure.We underestimate the amount of surveillance activity the security services do to keep us safe in the UK. Without them we would probably have terrorist attacks every week.
And the threat from the Islamic terrorists are largely mitigated from the work that Muslim agents carry out at apparently huge and frequently fatal risk.
Whitewavemark2
I have been listening to the ex-heads of MI5 and MI6.
Both agree that Israeli have overreacted in Gaza to their detriment.
That's interesting, WWM, How weary civilians on both sides of the borders must be, wanting just to live ordinary lives.
This article looks at the economic consequences to the region.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68884729
It's important because in terms of any recovery, of the ability of the people to rebuild the means to grow food or earn a living, has been set back even further. I'd say investment in that is, after immediate emergency aid, is central to any kind of peace.
Not to occupy Gaza.
It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.
Netanyahu is no Jew but is the head of an extreme Right Wing political party.
Caleo
Not to occupy Gaza.
It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.
Netanyahu is no Jew but is the head of an extreme Right Wing political party.
Christians and Muslims are required not to steal or covet too.
Doesn’t stop it happening tho.
Netanyahu is Jewish, no doubts there but like many, may be a secular Jew.
Of course Netanyahu is a Jew, but as Oreo says, possibly secular.
And as she says, Christians and Muslims are not supposed to steal or covet. Doesn’t mean some don’t though.
“It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.”
Anyone who believes that really has got a problem, if you believe it of Christian’s it’s no better. We break the 10 commandments constantly, some of us break them all.
Katie wrote:
"“It's definitive of a Jew not to steal or covet, Deuteronomy 32.36
Leviticus 19.18.”
Anyone who believes that really has got a problem, if you believe it of Christian’s it’s no better. We break the 10 commandments constantly, some of us break them all."
Right you are Katie, and other similar objections to my post.
Nobody is perfect. Those who intend to be Jews, Christians, or Muslims are as good as it gets and those deserve to be called Jews, Christians, or Muslims.
Netanyahu knows full well he is breaking many of the Ten Commandments and he has no intention of obeying them. Therefore he does not deserve to be called "a Jew".
Caleo he can be a Jew and called a Jew , you believe no one will be forgiven ,Christ knew better
Caleo I’m not sure you understand completely. The Jewish religion is as it says, a religion. However Jewish people are not defined by their religion, or indeed lack of religion, because Jewishness is a race, or if you like, perhaps a better description, an ethnicity. So people are Jewish who have no beliefs at all and do not follow the faith at all and are completely secular. And others are Jewish and follow the main festivals and celebrations and may or may not celebrate Shabbat. Other people are are religious and follow everything, and yet there are others who are completely orthodox. Others are Hasidic and wear different clothing and are very strict.
Netanyahu is a Jew. Whether or not he is secular or religious I don’t know.
Good explanation maddyone thank you.
Thank you Maddy for facts.
A great summary.
This the long version
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#
not everyone's cuppa T to read it all but its worth noting it adds
" religious Jews regard individuals who have formally converted to Judaism as part of the community"
If you are interested in finding out whether Jewish people consider they are a race, check out that question on myjewishlearning.com website.
They don’t incidentally. It’s an interesting site and I’ve learnt much there.
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