Immigration and migrants

Thank you, Tickingbird for your post. Settling down with a cup of coffee and reading through posts on Gransnet used to be a pleasurable part of my day. That’s not the case so much lately, as it seems to me that some of the threads are dominated by people who are firmly convinced that their opinion is the right one and the only one and that anyone who holds an alternative view is, at best, uneducated and ill informed or at worst, an ignorant bigot. I find myself more and more seeing a posters name, scrolling past and moving on. Like you, I wish there was a little more tolerance for others viewpoints and less sniping, sarcasm and unpleasantness. Looking back through this thread, it’s been a humdinger in that regard!

Primrose53
GSM

You are both making huge assumptions. If they have no papers you don’t know how old they are.

Young people, especially in countries where the age people leave school is far less than those here, might have gained many practical skills, mechanical, carpentry, brick building, to name just three which would be very useful over here. The great thing with practical skills is that a few days work trial would soon sort the wheat from the chaff.

A couple who used to live very close to us and came from a previous Eastern block country when they were in their very early 20’s. Both worked from the point they were legally able to, and worked harder than many British born.

They had the cleanest neatest property in the street, learnt and spoke good English. He was a painter/decorator/builder and she was a hairdresser but also work part time in hospitality.

Oh well that's alright then Cossy!

They can’t prove they have skills if they have no paperwork Cossy, and any they may have learned may not be to British standards . Witness the dreadful inadequacies in construction in some countries. We all know that many Eastern bloc immigrants are hard workers - also they didn’t destroy their papers and they came from countries where checking their credentials was possible. They may well have been economic migrants, of whom according to statistics 88% are likely to be employed once permitted as opposed to 50% of asylum seekers.

No-one is disputing the fact that they might be hard workers.

However, we don't know that even if they had papers with ID and qualifications.
Their qualifications might not be up to British standards.

Do we want someone to build a house, work as an electrician, service our car if we are not sure if or how they are qualified?

Posters talk about immigrants possibly being doctors, lawyers.
Do doctors not need further qualifications and to pass an English examination to work here?

Lawyers cannot work here simply because the laws here are different from those in their own countries. I know one, she is working as a waitress.

I really doubt a doctor from anyone who comes over in a small boat and claims asylum would be able to work in the NHS!
Or any other profession either.Standards have to be met and checked thoroughly.

Aveline

Oh well that's alright then Cossy!

Sarcasm is not required thanks!

I think demonising and dehumanise these, and indeed other cohorts of people, is unfair.

I’m sure there are a percentage of “bad” people amongst these “boat people@, just like there are in all societies and communities.

I’ve stayed so many times we need a fair, firm and robust migration policy, regardless of how these people arrive in the UK and I, along with many many others, want to see the dangerous ways they travel stopped.

I don’t blame the people on the boats, in the coaches, in the lorries, I blame ours and other European govts for failing to stop them and failing to protect our borders and all human life and I blame the ever growing richer people traffickers and those here who help these people disappear into our often very unsavoury black market.

I certainly don’t try and pretend that the all the people coming across in this way are ill educated, unskilled terrorist rapists.

Sorry, appalling typos! I need to learn to always use preview.

People don’t seem to understand that qualifications obtained in another country (even if their existence can be checked) simply cannot enable a migrant to work in the equivalent trade or profession here. Most definitely mechanics , electricians, plumbers, doctors and lawyers for instance have to pass further exams to prove that they are competent to work here and, of course, they must be able to speak the language.

No-one said that Cossy

Likewise, not all are doctors, lawyers, accountants as some claim.

Many will be youths just left school.

Germanshepherdsmum

People don’t seem to understand that qualifications obtained in another country (even if their existence can be checked) simply cannot enable a migrant to work in the equivalent trade or profession here. Most definitely mechanics , electricians, plumbers, doctors and lawyers for instance have to pass further exams to prove that they are competent to work here and, of course, they must be able to speak the language.

Quite!

When even Australians have to take an English exam before they can work in the NHS, and at their own expense, there needs to be funding available to teach English to a good standard too.

1% of the population? Sometimes I go out and never hear an English voice

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree. And many are too young to have acquired useful skills.

Well, here's an idea.

Rather than letting asylum seekers kick their feet while they're waiting for a Home Office decision, how about making training available?

I know somebody - big, burly, gruff ex-police officer, who doesn't put up with nonsense - who volunteers with asylum seekers. He's told me that the situation they're in brings him close to tears. He happens to have an allotment, so takes a group of asylum seekers with him to help out. Not only do they help with his allotment, but others have asked if they'll help them too. They now hold weekly meetings to discuss good growing techniques etc (and have a cup of tea and speak English). If they were allowed, these particular asylum seekers would be invaluable as workers in nurseries or small farms. They could even do qualifications.

Making training available costs money, unless you know hundreds of big burly ex coppers prepared to train them in horticulture gratis.

Oreo

Making training available costs money, unless you know hundreds of big burly ex coppers prepared to train them in horticulture gratis.

Some TEFL or CELTA qualified volunteers are teaching asylum seekers and refugees English.

The only way forward with all illegal migrants who come here on dinghies is to make the asylum process a fast one.I can guarantee that most of them are economic migrants and if the asylum process was done properly and speedily and those denied leave to stay were deported quickly then it wouldn’t be such a big problem.
Rwanda may or may not prove to be a deterrent.

Callistemon21

Oreo

Making training available costs money, unless you know hundreds of big burly ex coppers prepared to train them in horticulture gratis.

Some TEFL or CELTA qualified volunteers are teaching asylum seekers and refugees English.

That’s fine if voluntary, but shouldn’t be needed until the migrant had actually been accepted for asylum.

This country is too soft/ inept at dealing with migrant cases and they can lead the authorities a merry old dance and still not be deported years later.It’s actually a scandal.

It is indeed Oreo

growstuff

Germanshepherdsmum

I agree. And many are too young to have acquired useful skills.

Well, here's an idea.

Rather than letting asylum seekers kick their feet while they're waiting for a Home Office decision, how about making training available?

I know somebody - big, burly, gruff ex-police officer, who doesn't put up with nonsense - who volunteers with asylum seekers. He's told me that the situation they're in brings him close to tears. He happens to have an allotment, so takes a group of asylum seekers with him to help out. Not only do they help with his allotment, but others have asked if they'll help them too. They now hold weekly meetings to discuss good growing techniques etc (and have a cup of tea and speak English). If they were allowed, these particular asylum seekers would be invaluable as workers in nurseries or small farms. They could even do qualifications.

Farm work and nursery work is seasonal and unlikely to pay more than minimum wage. How would that enable them to feed and house themselves? They would be another burden on the welfare state (assuming they don’t descend into a life of crime - far more lucrative). Why do Eastern European agricultural workers live in horrible conditions, save as much as possible and go home at the end of the season? This simply isn’t a viable means of support.

Of course your friend has willing volunteers - they haven’t much else to do and they’re trying to get brownie points to enable them to stay, aren’t they? For an ex-police officer your friend seems surprisingly naive.

Or canny GSM as it gets his allotment dug and productive 😄

Biscuitmuncher

1% of the population? Sometimes I go out and never hear an English voice

Approx 1% of the population make up asylum seekers, however legal migration is very large so no idea if those numbers.

I live in a very ethnic area, there were in excess of 35 languages at one point in my children’s primary school. I hear lots of native Brits speaking when I’m out, and a fair number of other languages too.

Oreo

The only way forward with all illegal migrants who come here on dinghies is to make the asylum process a fast one.I can guarantee that most of them are economic migrants and if the asylum process was done properly and speedily and those denied leave to stay were deported quickly then it wouldn’t be such a big problem.
Rwanda may or may not prove to be a deterrent.

Unless you are a processing office in the Home Office work in Border Control Oreo you cannot possibly guarantee most of them are economic migrants.

Yes, we should stop the boats and yes we should process Thee applications far more efficiently. But “we” haven’t, hence this situation.

Germanshepherdsmum

People don’t seem to understand that qualifications obtained in another country (even if their existence can be checked) simply cannot enable a migrant to work in the equivalent trade or profession here. Most definitely mechanics , electricians, plumbers, doctors and lawyers for instance have to pass further exams to prove that they are competent to work here and, of course, they must be able to speak the language.

I think “people” understand this only too well, but some posters are just hell bent on “poo pooing” any suggestions put forward to help alleviate this situation, which we all agree is untenable.

Let’s just blame foreigners, who clearly will never be off any use to us, rather than our govt, other govts, people smugglers and those running out black economies, so much easier to blame groups of migrants, without giving two figs about them, their backgrounds or their issues.

Let’s hope no one in this country ever finds themselves in some of the situations these people have endured, even if some of them are economic migrants.

I can’t begin to imagine how a migrant with no papers, and to make matters more complicated maybe doesn’t speak English, can be speedily processed - and let’s not forget the vast numbers which arrive almost daily. The fine, calm weather has a distinct downside for us. Just how many civil servants are required in order to process these people? An unenviable job.