Immigration and migrants

Cossy

Germanshepherdsmum

People don’t seem to understand that qualifications obtained in another country (even if their existence can be checked) simply cannot enable a migrant to work in the equivalent trade or profession here. Most definitely mechanics , electricians, plumbers, doctors and lawyers for instance have to pass further exams to prove that they are competent to work here and, of course, they must be able to speak the language.

I think “people” understand this only too well, but some posters are just hell bent on “poo pooing” any suggestions put forward to help alleviate this situation, which we all agree is untenable.

Let’s just blame foreigners, who clearly will never be off any use to us, rather than our govt, other govts, people smugglers and those running out black economies, so much easier to blame groups of migrants, without giving two figs about them, their backgrounds or their issues.

Let’s hope no one in this country ever finds themselves in some of the situations these people have endured, even if some of them are economic migrants.

Let’s see sensible, practical, viable suggestions Cossy, not pie in the sky ideas such as they can be gardeners and farm workers.

Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?

The only way forward with all illegal migrants who come here on dinghies is to make the asylum process a fast one.I can guarantee that most of them are economic migrants and if the asylum process was done properly and speedily and those denied leave to stay were deported quickly then it wouldn’t be such a big problem

Exactly how Labour propose to deal with the issue.

growstuff

No, I don't need to accept blatant bigotry. The Germans in the 1930s did just that and look at what happened.

I don’t need you to tell me what happened in Nazi Germany, as you well know. It wasn’t about blatant bigotry

There are some on here that could do with a lesson on the subject and that includes you - Bigotry - an obstinate or intolerant devotion to one’s own opinions and prejudices

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

I heard yesterday that the UK spends fourteen billion a year on migrants. I suppose that means the hotels cost, the legal costs, the housing costs because not all live in hotels, and any other associated costs. It’s a lot of money.

GSM. When we were in Corfu 4 years ago we were chatting to a young man who brought our drinks at a beachside cafe.

He said he was from Albania and we asked if he was a student working for the summer hols. He said he was a builder/electrician/plumber. He pointed to the rear of the beach cafe and said “I did all that.” You have never seen such a mess, a small extension with dreadful brickwork, electric wires just hanging loose down the wall and pipework that left my husband laughing as we left. Obviously no qualifications. 🤣🤣

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

Don't give up Cossy its always worth looking for positive ideas even if it can only apply to part of a problem.

Nothing is ever an ideal solution but real ideas should be welcomed.

GSM, somebody save us from the idealists. We need more realists. I have not heard so many. impractical ideas since my University days. Most of them had been smoking the wacky stuff., and said things like "far out man "
Fortunately, most of them grew up and grew out of it, became realists.

This looks interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13396061/BBC-podcast-migrants-channel-people-smugglers-calais.html

I'd love to hear what solutions the "realists" have, tho, in this scenario.

(I think its a bit of a false dichotomy however - you can be both)

Wyllow3

I'd love to hear what solutions the "realists" have, tho, in this scenario.

(I think its a bit of a false dichotomy however - you can be both)

Me too!

petra

This looks interesting.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-13396061/BBC-podcast-migrants-channel-people-smugglers-calais.html

Rather than “interesting” I found this utterly horrifying!

Wyllow3

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

Don't give up Cossy its always worth looking for positive ideas even if it can only apply to part of a problem.

Nothing is ever an ideal solution but real ideas should be welcomed.

Yes, ideas are worth considering but who will supervise the asylum seekers when they are working? Will they just disappear into the black economy and we will never know what happens to them?

I've had an idea - what about ID cards for the population?

I do know how some posters dislike the idea but it would solve many problems.

Who checks they're not working cash in hand now? For the money which the Rwanda scheme has cost, it wouldn't be rocket science to come up with various schemes which don't require previous skills or qualifications and don't involve face-to-face contact with the public. Asylum seekers aren't toddlers or animals. They don't need constant supervision. Many of them will actually have trades, such as carpentry, so interview them, ask what they can do and use a bit of imagination to find them work. For example, people dispose of old furniture all the time, so get some of them to restore it. I wish I were younger because I could honestly come up with loads of things they could do and I'd be happy to set up a scheme.

PS. I think we should have ID cards too.

Cossy, this was put on to cause division. You have your opinion just don’t lecture me because I think the opposite , I am a grown woman and know what I see around me.

Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

It's OK. Us tax payers will top up their wages.

PS. I don't smoke, never mind wacky stuff and I don't think I've ever said "far out". I do, however, know a few people who have set up all sorts of schemes for Ukrainians in this town. They're realists - fortunately not of the negative variety.

Freya5

Germanshepherdsmum

Cossy

GSM

“Those who claim to have a trade or profession have to undergo exams to prove that they are competent and safe to work here, and they must have a sufficient command of the English language. Those who are to work with children and vulnerable people must pass the appropriate police checks, but how when there is no documentary evidence of who they are and from whence they come? Surely you can understand that?”

I completely understand and actually agree with you to a certain extent, BUT, big huge but, it takes little skill to become part of a team cleaning streets, removing refuse, assisting at a local tip/dump, to be a general labourer, to be a general cleaner as part of a team. Working with others who speak English will improve their understanding and use of English. I’m only suggesting these role until such time as they have their cases processed. We have plenty of “unskilled” roles, and we will simply have to agree to respectfully disagree that asylum seekers ALL arrive here with no English and no skills. I don’t think I suggested they should practice as lawyers ir doctors.

Do we have such a great need of people doing those menial jobs? And when their wages are insufficient to feed them and put roofs over their heads, what happens?

You are an idealist, not a realist.

It's OK. Us tax payers will top up their wages.

No, we wouldn't. They wouldn't even need to be paid. They would be learning skills, which could then be put to good use. Speculate to accumulate!

PS. Who do you think is paying for the Rwanda scheme?

Cossy

westendgirl

Cossy , you might as well go and get on with something else .
I am as fed up as you are with the refusal of some posters to even consider there could be ways forward. There's no chance of a reasonable debate at all .

Yes I’ll go and bang my head on a wall a few times, watch some paint dry and then have a few strong drinks.

🍾🍾🍾

I wish I drank!

Fgs, the idea of the Rwanda scheme is to get rid of them. We don’t need them gardening/upcycling furniture/whatever daft idea people have which won’t earn them enough to live on. We don’t need them, full stop.

Asylum seekers aren't toddlers or animals. They don't need constant supervision. Many of them will actually have trades, such as carpentry, so interview them, ask what they can do and use a bit of imagination to find them work. For example, people dispose of old furniture all the time, so get some of them to restore it.
That is already being done in many areas to try to give people the skills to get into or back into work. Upcycling.

Of course they would need supervision.

If you have no clue what skills, if any, a person has, they need supervision and showing how to do a task. Does anyone take on an apprentice and let them loose on a job without supervision?
No, and you'd make sure that apprentice has the required standard of education before taking them on.