Follow the Polls

It seems to me that he is a decent man, perhaps ill-advised by idiots, who is more out of his depth as Prime Minister than self-serving and devious

I think I agree with you too Calli.

I am a staunch Labour supporter but even I am beginning to feel a little sorry for Sunak now (only a little, mind you)

I do think he’s not that politically astute and is out of his depth. I get the impression he’ll be glad when the election is over and done with. Whichever party wins, I don’t think he’ll continue as leader of the Tories after the election.

I also agree that Starmer is a decent man and, I think, a lot tougher than people give him credit for. If Labour wins 🤞 I believe he’ll make a good PM.

Callistemon21

Dickens

Siope

Some interesting numbers from Rob Ford (Professor of Political Science at the University of Manchester, author, works with Curtice at the BBC) at the midway point of the election campaign:

Rishi Sunak’s net satisfaction rating of -53 is the worst recorded by MORI one month out from an election in all of the elections they have covered since 1979 - worse than Gordon Brown in 2010 (-36), John Major in 1997 (-46) or James Callaghan in 1979 (-33).

"The net rating of the Sunak government is, at -71, the worst approval of any British government MORI have asked about on the brink of an election...

"More than two thirds of British voters tell MORI the government doesn’t deserve to be re-elected next month, nearly three quarters say it is time for a change, and four fifths say the government has done a bad job. All of these figures are now at the highest level since Sunak took office...•

swingometer.substack.com/p/the-half-time-verdict

Is it Sunak - the party - or both, do you think?

He does appear to be like a stall sales-man trying to tempt would be customers who are already walking away by grabbing at various objects on his stall saying ^"wait a minute - what about this then?"^

grabbing at various objects on his stall saying "wait a minute - what about this then?"

There have been far worse Prime Ministers than Sunak, self-serving or those who ignore advice and are determined to tread a dangerous psth. It seems to me that he is a decent man, perhaps ill-advised by idiots, who is more out of his depth as Prime Minister than self-serving and devious.

There have been far worse Prime Ministers than Sunak...

For sure.

He seemed more adept as Chancellor (to me anyway) but now seems to be floundering. Perhaps it is his advisors...

Apart from the D-Day blunder - he seems to be addressing the issues that are of concern to the grass-roots Tories, but he's not resonating with them, and I find that puzzling.

And, yes- he does appear out of his depth.

One of my staunch Tory neighbours (we talk over the garden fences or in the street when we meet) made the observation that he wasn't "very British". And couldn't explain when I asked her - "in what way?"

I'm not a Tory-voter, nevertheless, found myself defending him because, to me anyway, he appears very 'British'. I'm not quite sure what being British really means, but I sort of know it when I see it. However, It's all about perception and according to MORI, he's obviously not being perceived in the way he had hoped.

Sunak is no good at politicking - I think it is that simple. He isn’t quick witted enough to avoid the pitfalls, - he is unable to think on his feet.

Some polls now have reform 1 point ahead of the Tories, but this won’t stand, and in any case it won’t translate into seats, but what it might do is to give Farage a seat in parliament which if the Tories resist taking him into their fold, will be no bad thing as Farage’s work rate is pretty none existent snd it will be soon clear of the paucity of his policies.

Whitewavemark2

Sunak is no good at politicking - I think it is that simple. He isn’t quick witted enough to avoid the pitfalls, - he is unable to think on his feet.

I sure agree with you about Sunak not being a political animal, which is why he may well be a good local MP but not PM or leader of a Party.
I also agree with Dickens about his ‘Britishness’ so don’t think there’s too much racism at play with those who don’t like him.

One of my staunch Tory neighbours (we talk over the garden fences or in the street when we meet) made the observation that he wasn't "very British". And couldn't explain when I asked her - "in what way?"
That sounds suspiciously like racism is tingeing her views. We have a friend, born in Uganda, who fled here as a child. He is one of the most patriotic people we know. Not sure how he votes, though.

RS doesn’t drink alcohol and is a vegetarian and Hindu, is also very wealthy mainly due to his wife’s family.Is probably a bit too pleasant to be the ‘chap next door’ and too rich to appeal to ‘the man in the street’.
I think he’s very likeable but that’s just me and not being a Tory voter my liking him on a personal level won’t help his cause.

Callistemon21
There will def be some racism at play with some voters but I don’t think it’s the main reason RS doesn’t resonate with people.They’d rather have bumbling Boris as he’s more like themselves? A big drinker, shambolic dresser, greedy to make ready cash, fat? Makes you think dunnit?

Oreo

Callistemon21
There will def be some racism at play with some voters but I don’t think it’s the main reason RS doesn’t resonate with people.They’d rather have bumbling Boris as he’s more like themselves? A big drinker, shambolic dresser, greedy to make ready cash, fat? Makes you think dunnit?

I didn't mean voters in general, Oreo; I meant Dickens's neighbour specifically.

Oh yeah, could well have been that if she couldn’t say exactly what she meant by very British.

Callistemon21

^One of my staunch Tory neighbours (we talk over the garden fences or in the street when we meet) made the observation that he wasn't "very British". And couldn't explain when I asked her - "in what way?"^
That sounds suspiciously like racism is tingeing her views. We have a friend, born in Uganda, who fled here as a child. He is one of the most patriotic people we know. Not sure how he votes, though.

That sounds suspiciously like racism is tingeing her views.

I suspect it is - she couldn't explain what she saw or heard that wasn't 'very-British'. And it wasn't his leaving the D-Day celebrations early because the conversation took place prior to that. Though I'm sure Sunak has given her and quite a few like her some ammunition to fire in that direction. If you peruse some of the social media sites featuring comments from the public - it crops up quite a bit in various subtle ways (subtle - to avoid site moderation).

We have a friend, born in Uganda, who fled here as a child. He is one of the most patriotic people we know. Not sure how he votes, though.

My OH who was born and raised in Sweden but is now a British Citizen is also very patriotic about his adopted country. When we both lived and worked in Norway for over a decade, I began to feel a sense of patriotism also towards my host country - especially in sport competitions. It creeps up on you, unless you are some sort of isolationist.

... anyway... as a couple of other posters have mentioned, it could be that he's not very good at 'politicking'? He's been 'in' politics for, what - nearly 10 years now, but doesn't seem to have that flair for oratory or 'delivery'.

I'm not a Tory voter, but I cannot dislike him. His political values aren't mine, but I think, as another poster said, he's at heart a decent man. However, I am not and have never been the best judge of character.

I also think that the "sick-note-culture" rhetoric, whilst it might resonate with some party faithful, will alienate others who are struggling with ill-health, GP appointments that are becoming as rare as gold-dust, cancelled surgery and / or long waits for it, who might be both in and out of work because of it.

On another board I visit now and then a poster had overheard some clearly racist comments in his local pub from local Tories on Sunak in the spirit of "not one of "us".
So I think there are probably some pockets of it.

Its hard to judge his legacy as he took over such as difficult job, Agree he's probably better character wise to be a chancellor.

I don't think the Conscription idea did him many favours and agree with Dickens on the "sick note culture" being punitive.

I think he’s unpopular with different people, or groups, for different reasons, above and beyond customary political views.

His wealth is certainly a factor, not because he’s rich, but because he appears to have used it to shelter himself from the most mundane realities (couldn’t use a debit card, saying he didn’t know any working class people). His politics, particularly the culture war themes, are not right-wing enough for some in his own party/voter pool, but as comments above show are too punitive for many others; he has never managed to create a clear political narrative. He isn’t white, and that’s enough for some ( Farage is making heavy play of Sunak’s not quite Britishness).

There are lots of other things too, big (supporting energy companies instead of consumers) and small (why try to play football and make a fool of yourself) and I think the level of his unpopularity is the sum of them all.

Siope

I think he’s unpopular with different people, or groups, for different reasons, above and beyond customary political views.

His wealth is certainly a factor, not because he’s rich, but because he appears to have used it to shelter himself from the most mundane realities (couldn’t use a debit card, saying he didn’t know any working class people). His politics, particularly the culture war themes, are not right-wing enough for some in his own party/voter pool, but as comments above show are too punitive for many others; he has never managed to create a clear political narrative. He isn’t white, and that’s enough for some ( Farage is making heavy play of Sunak’s not quite Britishness).

There are lots of other things too, big (supporting energy companies instead of consumers) and small (why try to play football and make a fool of yourself) and I think the level of his unpopularity is the sum of them all.

There are lots of other things too, big (supporting energy companies instead of consumers)

But why is anyone who voted Tory surprised / shocked / upset about this?

The government has been leaning ever further to the right embracing Hayekian economics - it's not a socialist government and public spending is not high on the priority list. The 'one-nation' Conservative party evaporated ages ago.

Sunak is/ was doing the right thing according to the party's economic ideology, protecting vested interests first and foremost. The fact that this pauperised people is obviously a concern because it makes the government unpopular but "there is help for households" to soften the blow is in place to mitigate.

I don't personally support any of this, but I'm still surprised that some seem to expect anything different.

But why is anyone who voted Tory surprised / shocked / upset about this?

I do t necessarily think they are. I think Tory voters (and party members) dislike him for other reasons, ranging from not white or right enough to unable to co tell the right-wing of the party. I think much of the wider electorate dislike his ’laissez-faire economics. The result is a trough of unpopularity he can’t escape because it’s too broad as well as deep.

‘Control the right wing of the party’.

Siope

^But why is anyone who voted Tory surprised / shocked / upset about this?^

I do t necessarily think they are. I think Tory voters (and party members) dislike him for other reasons, ranging from not white or right enough to unable to co tell the right-wing of the party. I think much of the wider electorate dislike his ’laissez-faire economics. The result is a trough of unpopularity he can’t escape because it’s too broad as well as deep.

It seems to me you have a problem with Rishi Sunak's skin colour, twice you have posted about the colour of his skin. No one else has mentioned this on any other thread on GN to my knowledge.

I like Rishi Sunak I think he is a decent, caring person.

growstuff

Keep it up! And tell all your Conservative voting friends to do the same!

You must be very naive if you think only Conservative voters are turning to Reform, Labour voters especially in the Red Wall seats who gave their vote to Boris will also be turning to Reform.

Nicenanny3

growstuff

Keep it up! And tell all your Conservative voting friends to do the same!

You must be very naive if you think only Conservative voters are turning to Reform, Labour voters especially in the Red Wall seats who gave their vote to Boris will also be turning to Reform.

But they are already Conservative voters!

Nicenanny3

Siope

But why is anyone who voted Tory surprised / shocked / upset about this?

I do t necessarily think they are. I think Tory voters (and party members) dislike him for other reasons, ranging from not white or right enough to unable to co tell the right-wing of the party. I think much of the wider electorate dislike his ’laissez-faire economics. The result is a trough of unpopularity he can’t escape because it’s too broad as well as deep.

It seems to me you have a problem with Rishi Sunak's skin colour, twice you have posted about the colour of his skin. No one else has mentioned this on any other thread on GN to my knowledge.

I like Rishi Sunak I think he is a decent, caring person.

Yes, they have. Dickens implied it when she mentioned her neighbour, who thinks Sunak isn't somehow "British".

"A resurgent Labour party is leading the Tories in red wall areas by more than 20 points — roughly in line with national polls — according to research by Redfield and Wilton, a polling firm.

Financial Times quote
www.ft.com/content/f1d18aef-b9d6-4cbc-969a-1cb4c312c47e
tho you may catch a paywall, this is from that article.

Yes, they have. Dickens implied it when she mentioned her neighbour, who thinks Sunak isn't somehow "British".

The neighbour could hardly deny he was British - be he was not very British. No idea what it is he lacks in her view to qualify for being not very-British, and she couldn't explain it either.

One can pussy-foot around and pretend not to understand but I suspect his heritage is what bothers her. Because nothing else makes sense.

A good debate would be Farage v Starmer with Rishi making the sandwiches.

I’d prefer to see an in depth interview for Farage, similar to the Beth Rigby one (preferably with a better interviewer) where he is asked probing questions about his policies. The more I’ve watched of the head to heads with two or multiple parties there the more it seems just a sound bite opportunity, and slagging off the other parties, nothing new is said.

Starmer would be out of his depth going head to head with Nigel Farage, Farage would win hands down. Starmer would be lost without his autoque and Starmer's policies would be torn to shreds, it won’t happen. Starmer's last interview when he mentioned God knows how many times before that his father was a tool maker and the audience laughed and there he was the next day saying his father would turn in his grave because people laughed at him being a tool maker, they were laughing at you Starmer you idiot.