Labour and the Tories have disenfranchised me

GSM did you watch the 2 party leaders being interviewed by Beth Rigby? She absolutely gave Keir Starmer a grilling.

Germanshepherdsmum

I simply want to see Starmer properly grilled and put on the spot. That hasn’t happened yet. His manifesto is full of lies and half-truths and he knows it. Farage doesn’t pull his punches. I think he would do a good job of exposing Starmer and his party for what they are.

Starmer has been, and he will be again, by proper interviewers and experts who can constructively challenge political leaders. Have you read Reform’s manifesto - if so you’ll know that it makes Labour’s look like a work of genius. Don’t allow your dislike of Starmer to colour your judgement of Farage’s capabilities. He needs scrutiny of his own policies before he would have any credibility to scrutinise any other party leader - he is the epitome of all mouth and no trousers as far I’ve seen so far.

Luckygirl3

Franbern

The First past the vote system is dreadful, and whilst we have that there is no way is the UK a democratic country.

If there are smaller parties standing in a constituency who may nearer reflect a voters wishes, then vote for them, do not be mislead with this silly idea of 'strategic voting', which only perpetuates the FPTP system.

If the is really no-one on thE ballot paper who you feel you can vote for then still go, collect that voting slip, cross them all out putting clearly NONE OF TH ABOVE.

Do NOT JUST NOT VOTE.

My first votes were cast in 1964 - for the very first time since then I will not be voting Labour as the Labour Party has one out of existence (despite one still falsely using that name).

Over the past five years, as the Tories have continually moved to the right, so Starmars' party has then moved into the space they left. Starmars' party is now virtually identical to the Conservative party as it was before Johnson.

My vote is going to the Greens.

Strategic/tactical voting does not perpetuate the awful FPTP system (which I agree is undemocratic) - it plays that system in order to get as near as possible to the wishes of the populace. No-one wants to have to do this, but what other option is there when so many constituencies finish up with an MP for whom the majority of the electorate did not vote?

A vote for the Greens (however much you agree with their policies) is a vote down the pan, especially in areas (like most) where they stand no chance of winning. Similarly with other small parties.

It is a travesty of democracy when we are forced to play the system in this way.

Unless you live in Brighton, North Herefordshire, Bristol central or east, Isle of Wight, Dulwich or Sheffield.. please don't give up hope.. The Greens manifesto is quite inspirational..

I am suitably inspired, but primarily concerned that the current Tory government will be gone. No amount of being inspired by the Greens will achieve that. I live in the neighbouring constituency to N. Herefordshire, where indeed the farmers would vote for a Tory monkey. Where we can get them out, we must.

Starmer has been, and he will be again, by proper interviewers and experts who can constructively challenge political leaders. Have you read Reform’s manifesto - if so you’ll know that it makes Labour’s look like a work of genius. Don’t allow your dislike of Starmer to colour your judgement of Farage’s capabilities. He needs scrutiny of his own policies before he would have any credibility to scrutinise any other party leader - he is the epitome of all mouth and no trousers as far I’ve seen so far

Hear hear Casdon👏👏👏

Starmer has not been grilled about his manifesto Casdon. It was only published yesterday.

Reform’s apology for a manifesto would have been better written by a schoolboy.

He is being interviewed by Nick Robinson this very evening.
www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/2024/bbc-confirms-party-leader-interviews-with-nick-robinson
Spot the missing interview.
There are more scheduled before the election - as I said, I want to see Farage in a proper scrutiny interview.

I am far more concerned about what isn’t in Labours manifesto regarding taxes, particularly capital gains tax on your primary home, pensions and IHT, than what is in it.

No Government to my knowledge has ever achieved what was laid out in its manifesto…

I have no expectations of short term change from a Labour or any other government that might follow the Tories. Things cannot be turned around quickly. What I want is some integrity and a recognition that there is more than one group of people in our society and we need to start prioritising those who are disadvantaged. The Tory principle of everyone for themselves and "no such thing as society" has caused untold damage.

Starmer is playing the long game - priority at the moment is to win the election.

A whole generation of children have grown up under this morally bankrupt code.

I have never voted Labour in my life but will this time as they are the only party with a chance of making a start on sorting out this sad mess.

Luckygirl3

I am suitably inspired, but primarily concerned that the current Tory government will be gone. No amount of being inspired by the Greens will achieve that. I live in the neighbouring constituency to N. Herefordshire, where indeed the farmers would vote for a Tory monkey. Where we can get them out, we must.

Yes I agree Luckygirl but where there is any real possibility of getting a Green MP voted in I think we should do it.. I live in Pavilion in Brighton.. where we probably will get a replacement for Caroline Lucas.. and most other parts of Brighton will probably be Labour.. PR is the way forward but a long way off sadly..

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

Luckygirl3

I have no expectations of short term change from a Labour or any other government that might follow the Tories. Things cannot be turned around quickly. What I want is some integrity and a recognition that there is more than one group of people in our society and we need to start prioritising those who are disadvantaged. The Tory principle of everyone for themselves and "no such thing as society" has caused untold damage.

Starmer is playing the long game - priority at the moment is to win the election.

A whole generation of children have grown up under this morally bankrupt code.

I have never voted Labour in my life but will this time as they are the only party with a chance of making a start on sorting out this sad mess.

dream on!

Well said Primrose. I would add ‘be careful with you wish for’.

Germanshepherdsmum

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

You’re right of course, we’re all morons with no powers of critical analysis compared with your good self.

A good many are, Casdon. I don’t count you among them. You only have to see some who are interviewed, apparently very few functioning brain cells.

Casdon

Germanshepherdsmum

Exactly. They have said very little and what they have said they intend to do to increase tax revenue will produce but a tiny drop in the ocean. That’s what I want to see them questioned about. Any fool can surely see that they haven’t a hope of doing much on the back of a predicted possible increase in tax revenue of £8.6bn by 27/28. I say ‘possible’ because neither they nor anyone else knows how much tax they can recover from non-doms, ‘loopholes’ and tax evasion - net of the cost of Lord knows how many extra trained HMRC officials. It’s a stab in the dark and the result of the stab is, at best, peanuts. But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question.

You’re right of course, we’re all morons with no powers of critical analysis compared with your good self.

((Big hugs)) fellow moron.

as I said, I want to see Farage in a proper scrutiny interview.

He was due to be the second biectvof onevof the Nick Robinson interviews, but cancelled at very short notice last week (in the middle of the furore about a Reform candidates views on Hitler). His excuse was first a diary clash, and later, that it wasn’t in diary at all.

Those who support Farage and Reform would believe every word he said. He could never form a government, nor an opposition, except in his deluded mind.

But of course it appeals to their core supporters whose ability to think for themselves I seriously question

Offensive GSM!

Growstuff & Casdon can I join the moron club too

My opinion, having seen many of them interviewed. Fortunately I don’t actually know any Labour supporters - they are rare as hens’ teeth in these parts. So my opinion is based on what I see on tv and what I read. Knock it if you like. Anyone incapable of questioning the claim that all Labour’s manifesto promises are fully funded needs to have a long, hard think. It’s no good saying ‘it will take a while’. How long, and how much will everyone end up paying in extra taxes?

Germanshepherdsmum

My opinion, having seen many of them interviewed. Fortunately I don’t actually know any Labour supporters - they are rare as hens’ teeth in these parts. So my opinion is based on what I see on tv and what I read. Knock it if you like. Anyone incapable of questioning the claim that all Labour’s manifesto promises are fully funded needs to have a long, hard think. It’s no good saying ‘it will take a while’. How long, and how much will everyone end up paying in extra taxes?

Maybe, if you actually ventured to speak to a Labour supporter, you might find that not everybody who intends to vote Labour accepts the manifesto without question. For some, it's possibly the least bad option.

PS. Even morons are entitled to opinions and have a vote.

I certainly won't be voting Labour but respect the opinions of those who will and the reasons they choose to do so.
I know quite a few labour voters and they are intelligent and well informed.
I choose to place my vote elsewhere and that is my right .

I have not seen a Labour supporter here or elsewhere questioning the manifesto. Are they afraid to highlight its flaws?

Are they afraid to highlight its flaws

GSM nope