Keir Starmer's definition of working class

Germanshepherdsmum

Yes Sago, he never misses an opportunity to remind us. And his mother was a nurse.

This latest statement is worrying. He talks a lot about ‘working people’. Now it seems that phrase means ‘people who have nothing’.

No. It means people that, if eg the fridge breaks down don’t have a back up crisis fund to replace it so probably end up having to borrow money at a high interest rate which then throws them into debt so that as well as not having a crisis fund they are then in debt and having to pay off the interest so are in a downward spiral. Why shouldn’t he remind us that his mother was a nurse? He’s had years of people assuming that he was posh because of being called Sir. I’m pretty sure that he knows more about working class people than Sunak.

Actually, I’m this century, anyone who works is effectively “working clas” but actually Starmer does not use this expression at all, he uses the term “working” not “working class” I have not heard ANY politician refer to “working class” just “working” “not working” and “middle”

I don't know if other countries are as obsessed with class as we are; definitions are very fluid and I would say based more on education, thus increased earning power, rather than antecedents. It is the attempt to categorise people into deserving and undeserving workers that offends.

Very broadly speaking, upper class encompassed those descended from the aristocracy, usually with family wealth but supposedly with good breeding, (which I would not attempt to define.)

Middle class loosely described people with professions, formerly younger sons who had to earn a living, generally in the church, the law and the military and later expanding to include people with university qualifications and training

Working class was a euphemism for lower class, the 'rough poor' until nearly everyone had paid employment.
And 'working people' is still associated with working class which to many is a derogatory term, as is obvious from the response it provoked. Obviously, some workers are going to be taxed but not all, and the implication is it will be those who save, or as my father drummed into me, 'always have something in reserve,' which came from hard work and thrift and supporting his family through the depression, not a well-paid job.

Starmer made a foolish choice of words, and as has been pointed out, a barrister should know better.

Just checked the Tom Baldwin biography, Chapter 2 and it describes Rodney Starmer working alone in his factory, based in an old canteen. Before that he worked in other people's factories in South London and Caterham, but wanted to work nearer to home to care for his wife. Keir's mother was not able to work for much of his childhood, she had Still's Disease and became increasingly disabled. The impact on his childhood is very clear in this and other sources.
I realise people may not find this very interesting or relevant, but I do think facts matter.

I think the fact that Victoria Starmer is an OT in the NHS matters great deal - first hand experience of what it's really like. Day by day, week by week.

And reportedly the NHS doesn’t want a Labour government.

Mamie

Just checked the Tom Baldwin biography, Chapter 2 and it describes Rodney Starmer working alone in his factory, based in an old canteen. Before that he worked in other people's factories in South London and Caterham, but wanted to work nearer to home to care for his wife. Keir's mother was not able to work for much of his childhood, she had Still's Disease and became increasingly disabled. The impact on his childhood is very clear in this and other sources.
I realise people may not find this very interesting or relevant, but I do think facts matter.

I think Keir finds it difficult talking about his family, and has found it hard having to talk about them publicly, but realised he had to do it so it really annoys me when people mock him for it. The first time I heard his back story was when he was on Desert Island Discs and I was moved to tears listening to it. I hope when he ( hopefully) becomes PM he can protect his family in the way that I’m sure he wants to do and that his wife can continue working.

I find the ownership of things as unreliable a guide to people's wealth/class as having savings.

My parents were in their mid-50s before they had a phone in the house. the reason was not poverty. My father was an army officer, but we kept moving house with the job and at that time if you contacted the telephone company for a phone it would often be several years before you got it.

This meant, in my parents case that if you ordered a phone the army would move you on before you got to the top of the list, so they never bothered. When he left the army and they settled down to a fixed home, then they got a phone.

I have known a lot of ostensibly comfortably off people, socially quite upmarket who did not have enough money to write a cheque in an emergency, Most were retirement age but they had all lived lives of financial inepness, not necessarily thriftless, but just people who never thought further ahead than tomorrows breakfast - if that.

Which is why - working class or working people - this exampe of muddled aand not properly thought through comments by the man who could be Prime Minister this time next month is so dispiriting.

Here is the interview.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UCxIFkSD0Y

Thanks for starting another Keir Starmer bashing thread MOnica. Do you really want five more years of Conservative government? Because I don’t…

There have been a great many Conservative bashing threads. Starmer is not immune, especially when he comes out with something silly like this.

MayBee70

Mamie

Just checked the Tom Baldwin biography, Chapter 2 and it describes Rodney Starmer working alone in his factory, based in an old canteen. Before that he worked in other people's factories in South London and Caterham, but wanted to work nearer to home to care for his wife. Keir's mother was not able to work for much of his childhood, she had Still's Disease and became increasingly disabled. The impact on his childhood is very clear in this and other sources.
I realise people may not find this very interesting or relevant, but I do think facts matter.

I think Keir finds it difficult talking about his family, and has found it hard having to talk about them publicly, but realised he had to do it so it really annoys me when people mock him for it. The first time I heard his back story was when he was on Desert Island Discs and I was moved to tears listening to it. I hope when he ( hopefully) becomes PM he can protect his family in the way that I’m sure he wants to do and that his wife can continue working.

I don't think they're mocking him or his father. Just that he keeps repeating the fact of his fathers trade over and over, it's "oh crikey hear we go again.". People do not need reminding , even myself, a non Labour voter, know what his parents did for a living.

Freya5 The main reason Starmer continues to talk about his background is twofold. 1) if you read other interviews he’s extremely proud of his upbringing and parents, 2) his detractors constantly infer he is out of touch, is “posh”, “wealthy” and a “Sir”. He’s also had a huge amount of “bashing” and awful smears about his time as a lawyer and when DPP. Let’s give him a chance, he’s clearly a centralists and progressive and has no problem with people doing well, so long as it’s not at the expense of those who are vulnerable.

IMO, and many others, he cannot be worse than the current bunch!

Easybee, my recollections are correct, as it is about the Universities. Hospitals working flat out, but no surgeries at doctors, still not easy.
I know C wont get in as people want change, theres been so many mistakes, however I do not trust the man who has done a complete circle from a Corbyn champion, yes I know he said he only did it as he thought Corbyn wouldn't get in,,well you couldn't make it up, Raynor the same, she hasn’t changed. Starmer was a drip all the way through Covid, he’s ok now as it’s almost a one horse race. Got to look at his smug face for the foreseeable, never mind I will take some holidays to make up for those I missed,
I have never not wanted to vote, Sunak did it for Johnson, now it’s his turn, what a shower they all are,

Sago

His father was a toolmaker.

Just like Sadiq khan “my father was a bus driver.”😝

Allsorts

Easybee, my recollections are correct, as it is about the Universities. Hospitals working flat out, but no surgeries at doctors, still not easy.
I know C wont get in as people want change, theres been so many mistakes, however I do not trust the man who has done a complete circle from a Corbyn champion, yes I know he said he only did it as he thought Corbyn wouldn't get in,,well you couldn't make it up, Raynor the same, she hasn’t changed. Starmer was a drip all the way through Covid, he’s ok now as it’s almost a one horse race. Got to look at his smug face for the foreseeable, never mind I will take some holidays to make up for those I missed,
I have never not wanted to vote, Sunak did it for Johnson, now it’s his turn, what a shower they all are,

Lots of people criticise Raynor for being a “turncoat” her answer “I’m doing what I do for the country and the party, not any one individual” Corbyn had his chance, how many elections did he lose? I like Corbyn, but many clearly didn’t.

Who cares what any of their father's did. Their father's are not running for the election.

All I am interested in is what the politicians who want to govern our country now are

In the early 1960s I went to a university stuffed to the gunnels with boys who had fathers who worked in factories, on the railways and other skilled and manual jobs. Most of them studying engineering and science. I dated several and married one of them.

There is nothing unusual about children of manual and skilled workers going to university

MOnica

Which is why - working class or working people - this exampe of muddled aand not properly thought through comments by the man who could be Prime Minister this time next month is so dispiriting.

It was a direct question in an interview, no time to consider replies . You still keep speaking of working class , not spoken of
in the interview

He was a barrister, used to thinking on his feet. There is no excuse for him to trot out a definition of ‘working people’ which is not the definition anyone else - even his shadow chancellor - would use. So what is he really intending to do?

GSM - what makes you say (13.05) that the NHS doesn't want a Labour government?

I have read that that is so, even on GN.

Do we have data to support this, GSM?

I have read on GN what a wonderful PM Liz Truss will be

Anniebach

I have read on GN what a wonderful PM Liz Truss will be

😄😄

Germanshepherdsmum

He was a barrister, used to thinking on his feet. There is no excuse for him to trot out a definition of ‘working people’ which is not the definition anyone else - even his shadow chancellor - would use. So what is he really intending to do?

But it was not a definition!

It is only the media making it so.

Because they are desperate to pin something- anything on Starmer.

It simply won’t wash I am afraid.