Boxer forces female competitor to quit at the Olympic games [Title edited by GNHQ at poster's request]

As is MaggieMaybe ‘s post.
Why does Khelif have no obvious female physical attribute though - eg breasts?
Does he wear a head covering/scarf/ hijab in his everyday life?

The thing is Callistemon21, I feel people are using this as part of an anti-trans agenda.

For example, someone even said Khelif had fathered two children when she herself has said her body cannot make sperm.

The chromosome test results were never published and Khelif has never disclosed her biological markers. It's "believed" the so-called results were leaked via Russia - so who knows?

I don't know what is genuinely fair to everyone in sports and am grateful that I don't have to sort it all out (!) but I do hate the automatic bashing of people who aren't "like us".

RosiesMaw2

Quote BeverleyJB Fri 02-Aug-24 21:44:22
I've tried to explain my understanding (as a lay person) from the research I've done in the hope that it's helpful. But of course you are all free to research for yourselves …..

The tests undertaken by the IBA on Khelif were not “gender tests” (whatever those may be) or hormonal tests, but genetic ones. Those tests determined that Khelif had XY chromosomes and, as a consequence, the IBA - which does not agree that men should be in a boxing ring with women, and has reaffirmed today 01/08/2024, that it will continue to protect women boxers - determined the he, as a male, should not take part in women's boxing.

Khelif has XY chromosomes, so is biologically male (whatever it may say on his passport, whatever clothes he was given to wear when a child, or whatever pronouns he chooses.) Human sex is immutable

This seems clear enough. .

This is all to do with the protection of women boxers.

What makes the IOC think their decision is right, based on nothing more than a statement in a passport, and the IBA and genetic testing are wrong?

If the IOC refuses to see that female athletes competing in the Olympic Games should do so on level terms and without severe risk of harm, then they are arrogant and risk harming the Games themselves.

The thing is Callistemon21, I feel people are using this as part of an anti-trans agenda.

No, absolutely not.

RosiesMaw2

As is MaggieMaybe ‘s post.
Why does Khelif have no obvious female physical attribute though - eg breasts?
Does he wear a head covering/scarf/ hijab in his everyday life?

Incorrect posting.

Khelif was born female.

Whitewavemark2

RosiesMaw2

As is MaggieMaybe ‘s post.
Why does Khelif have no obvious female physical attribute though - eg breasts?
Does he wear a head covering/scarf/ hijab in his everyday life?

Incorrect posting.

Khelif was born female.

He was assigned female sex at birth.

It happens very occasionally as explained in my earlier post, but it was incorrect.

Can someone please point me to where she says she that she has Swyer Syndrome anyway?
I have only found allegedly has this in "Reputable" papers.
I realise I may have missed it as I've not been closely following this.

Callistemon213

Whitewavemark2

RosiesMaw2

As is MaggieMaybe ‘s post.
Why does Khelif have no obvious female physical attribute though - eg breasts?
Does he wear a head covering/scarf/ hijab in his everyday life?

Incorrect posting.

Khelif was born female.

He was assigned female sex at birth.

It happens very occasionally as explained in my earlier post, but it was incorrect.

Do you have access to her medical records? If so I shall stand corrected.

If not then you are posting incorrect information.

Callistemon213

Ambiguous genitalia at birth could lead to the wrong sex being assigned.
The parents would therefore bring the child up as the sex assigned at birth even if that is wrong.

It's no good looking at pictures of the small child and judging by that. Even many boys who are not wrongly assigned at birth can still be very pretty as a small child but changes show at puberty when testerone levels rise.

Imane has male levels of testerone as well as male chromosomes and was rightly banned by the IBA.

I'm amazed that some think that it is fine for this person to be in the ring with a woman.

I posted earlier in the thread how some male babies can be wrongly assigned as female at birth. Their birth certificates will state 'girl'. They would be then be brought up as girls and believe they are.
When they reach puberty they go through male puberty, produce testosterone which makes their bodies grow bigger and stronger than females

Now DNA tests can prove that these people are in fact male with all the unfair advantages that will bring if they are competing in sport.

NotSpaghetti your claim that this is anti-transgender is a non-sequitur as this boxer does not identify as transgender.

He thought as a child he was female, as did his parents. Going through male puberty, not female, should have given an indication.

I am not saying that there is no issue with trans women and fairness, but I am not prepared to point fingers at people without absolute certainty and as far as I can make out there is no certainty that this individual is anything other than female.

I can understand if Khelif has been brought up as female and wishes to live as a female and few would be bothered by that but entering into female only competitions when having the body of a man is not acceptable.

Callistemon213

Callistemon213

Ambiguous genitalia at birth could lead to the wrong sex being assigned.
The parents would therefore bring the child up as the sex assigned at birth even if that is wrong.

It's no good looking at pictures of the small child and judging by that. Even many boys who are not wrongly assigned at birth can still be very pretty as a small child but changes show at puberty when testerone levels rise.

Imane has male levels of testerone as well as male chromosomes and was rightly banned by the IBA.

I'm amazed that some think that it is fine for this person to be in the ring with a woman.

I posted earlier in the thread how some male babies can be wrongly assigned as female at birth. Their birth certificates will state 'girl'. They would be then be brought up as girls and believe they are.
When they reach puberty they go through male puberty, produce testosterone which makes their bodies grow bigger and stronger than females

Now DNA tests can prove that these people are in fact male with all the unfair advantages that will bring if they are competing in sport.

NotSpaghetti your claim that this is anti-transgender is a non-sequitur as this boxer does not identify as transgender.

He thought as a child he was female, as did his parents. Going through male puberty, not female, should have given an indication.

You have zero evidence to make that assertion though

That is not fair.

Surely, as I stated on this thread earlier, none of us actually know! This is all speculation. Unless the actual medical tests are published online, which they won’t be, none of us have any actual scientific evidence, just re-quoting something doesn’t make it a fact.

Some of the comments on this thread are disgusting, especially around these boxers appearance.

Let’s just leave this where it is and admit none of us actually know!

Exactly so.

SM is notorious for spreading falsehoods.

Parts of society have perpetuated a lie that men can become women, this has been chanted by political parties, all media etc, its no good talking about falsehoods on social media when this is the case. Why are some lies ok and some arent.

Galaxy

Parts of society have perpetuated a lie that men can become women, this has been chanted by political parties, all media etc, its no good talking about falsehoods on social media when this is the case. Why are some lies ok and some arent.

Who is saying lies are OK?

I’m certainly not.

What I do believe though is that all people regardless of identified gender should be able to live their lives with freedom, dignity and respect.

That includes women by the way. So the issues regarding women/male space will undoubtedly be addressed within the near future.

Cossy

Surely, as I stated on this thread earlier, none of us actually know! This is all speculation. Unless the actual medical tests are published online, which they won’t be, none of us have any actual scientific evidence, just re-quoting something doesn’t make it a fact.

Some of the comments on this thread are disgusting, especially around these boxers appearance.

Let’s just leave this where it is and admit none of us actually know!

Exactly !
Meanwhile a fellow female boxer has come out and said that this boxer is female ( see Daily Mail for that info )
Also, the Italian boxer has apologized for her behaviour .
This comment about her not having breasts is ridiculous as I have two friends who were very flat breasted and are 100 percent female.
Also, that her face doesn’t look female is also ridiculous . People’s faces can look very different to what some people determine in their head is feminine or masculine .

Callistemon213 I
We may know this is not a transgender situation but I simply believe this is at the root of a lot of it.

Whatever is going on, I'm not trying to pick a fight I just find it is unpleasant and "othering".

And as some have already said, speculative.

wapo.st/3LOYtu0

I have gifted this article as it clarifies some points and please note that the boxing organization that disqualified the Algerian boxer is Russian led boxing organization and has been decertified . There is no proof that the Algerian boxer is NOT a woman.

Paywall protected I’m afraid.

The International Boxing Association has barred Khelif from women’s boxing after tests revealed that Imane Khelif had XY Chromosomes.

XY Chromosomes = Male

GrannyGravy13

The International Boxing Association has barred Khelif from women’s boxing after tests revealed that Imane Khelif had XY Chromosomes.

XY Chromosomes = Male

No that isn’t correct.

There were no tests and the now banned association gave no reason for the ban.

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

The International Boxing Association has barred Khelif from women’s boxing after tests revealed that Imane Khelif had XY Chromosomes.

XY Chromosomes = Male

No that isn’t correct.

There were no tests and the now banned association gave no reason for the ban.

Are you accusing the association of putting out falsehoods?

If so have you anything to back this up

(I posted the IBA’s statement upthread)

There has been an ongoing dispute between the IOC and the boxing organisation, this is well known. The IOC itself has failures in its past, according to many at the time the IOC was complicit in the doping scandal which impacted female athletes.