Angela Rayner dancing whilst on holiday in Ibiza

Two whole months, he?
I expect he's still breaking in his new glasses.

Oreo those pay rises were given to people we can't do without. They have been underpaid for years. We can't carry on having strikes and need to get the country working again.
Losing the WFA has been hard on some pensioners and I hope they will be helped in some way. The problem with WFA was it was being paid to millionaires and others who are comfortably off and that is a huge waste of public money.
I didn't vote Labour and am not a fan of Starmer but I can see the reasoning behind some decisions he has made.

The cost to the NHS of the strikes has been astronomical, it would have been much better to have negotiated and got an early settlement. The money that has gone into the pockets of those owning the agencies is massive, money that could have been spent on treating patients.
With regard to WFA, 25% of pensioners have assets worth over a million, lots of us are not in fuel poverty and don't need extra money to heat our homes. I believe money should go where it's needed the most. Sadly there are pensioners who do need the money and won't get it because they haven't claimed pension credit when they should.

What do people want truth or lies? Truth is, as a country we are rather broke, our public services are pretty awful and our tax bill is pretty high.

I'm afraid, foxie that it isn't true that 'as a country we are rather broke'.

The truth is that as a country with an independent 'sovereign' fiat currency we can never be 'broke' because the government is free to create as much money as it needs whenever it needs it. It is not a household, or a business, neither of which can do this rather useful thing.

The real lie is that perpetrated by Thatcher when she said "There is no such thing as public money. There is only taxpayers' money.".

It is the obsession with 'debt' that is stymieing the country at the moment (and which cause the tory's ruinous 'austerity' policies which have yet to be unwound and which are a main contributory cause of the current state of our public services).

In reality, the current 'debt' comprises the Quantitative Easing money which was created by the Bank of England under the instructions of the government in 2008 (the Global financial Crisis), 2016 (to prop up the pound after the Brexit vote) and in 2020 to fund Covid. That amounts to about a third of the so called 'national debt' and we are in the absurd position of paying interest on the money the BoE created; we're paying interest on our own money, so to speak!

The rest is made up of government bonds. which people and institutions buy because they are the ultimate safe investment as they know that the government will always repay their principle and the interest due on them, and the National Savings vehicles offered to the public.

Governments have issued bonds for centuries. People with some money to invest safely to produce an income bought them because they offered a safe regular income.

None of the 'investors in government bonds and savings vehicles actually want the money to be repaid to them unless they specifically ask for repayment. (Try asking folks on the Premium Bonds threads if they would like the government to unilaterally 'pay them back' the money it has supposedly 'borrowed' from them. When I suggested it the answer was a resounding NO 😁)

The main problem, as I see it, is not government spending per se, because that is how it puts more money into the economy, but the fact that it is wrongly targeted. Look at the £millions of profit that was made supplying useless PPE... And the big companies which seem to have a monopoly on government contracts, even if they have a history of failure...

What is required now to improve growth and improve public services is state investment on a large scale, not the miserable continuation of 'austerity' being planned by the new government because of the obsession with paying down the 'debt'.

Allira

ronib

Lord Alli - donated clothes and spectacles worth £20k to Keir Starmer. One donor.
Multiple benefits doubtless.

£20,000 for clothes and specs?

I somehow missed that. Why couldn't he go to Specsavers and M&S like everyone else?

There are better quality specs around than those fro Specsavers and they are worth every penny.

Except it was a donation.
Can you imagine Starmer prancing around trying on different glasses to see if his friend thought they looked ok?

Ir perhaps Alli bought in a carrier bag full of expensive specs and handed them over.

AGAA4

Oreo those pay rises were given to people we can't do without. They have been underpaid for years. We can't carry on having strikes and need to get the country working again.
Losing the WFA has been hard on some pensioners and I hope they will be helped in some way. The problem with WFA was it was being paid to millionaires and others who are comfortably off and that is a huge waste of public money.
I didn't vote Labour and am not a fan of Starmer but I can see the reasoning behind some decisions he has made.

I agree

ronib

Come to think of it, there’s nothing that Starmer can do to pretend to be statesman like. Every time he opens his mouth, it gets worse. Such a pity that Lord Alli wasted his money. Should have offered basic communication skills course instead.

Well strangely enough he managed to have a very successful career prior to entering politics, much of which required more than “basic communication skills!”

Also, Johnson used his massive donations to buy extremely exclusive and expensive wallpaper. At least clothes and glasses are useful!

foxie48

The cost to the NHS of the strikes has been astronomical, it would have been much better to have negotiated and got an early settlement. The money that has gone into the pockets of those owning the agencies is massive, money that could have been spent on treating patients.
With regard to WFA, 25% of pensioners have assets worth over a million, lots of us are not in fuel poverty and don't need extra money to heat our homes. I believe money should go where it's needed the most. Sadly there are pensioners who do need the money and won't get it because they haven't claimed pension credit when they should.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Also, Johnson used his massive donations to buy extremely exclusive and expensive wallpaper.

That was only part of it😁

Luxury takeaways delivered to No 10 during covid, exotic holidays, wild parties in Italy...

Cossy

foxie48

The cost to the NHS of the strikes has been astronomical, it would have been much better to have negotiated and got an early settlement. The money that has gone into the pockets of those owning the agencies is massive, money that could have been spent on treating patients.
With regard to WFA, 25% of pensioners have assets worth over a million, lots of us are not in fuel poverty and don't need extra money to heat our homes. I believe money should go where it's needed the most. Sadly there are pensioners who do need the money and won't get it because they haven't claimed pension credit when they should.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

👍

We’ll see what Parliament makes of the WFA debacle this Tuesday.I expect some Labour MP’s to abstain.Others will reluctantly obey the whip.

Wyllow3

Cossy

foxie48

The cost to the NHS of the strikes has been astronomical, it would have been much better to have negotiated and got an early settlement. The money that has gone into the pockets of those owning the agencies is massive, money that could have been spent on treating patients.
With regard to WFA, 25% of pensioners have assets worth over a million, lots of us are not in fuel poverty and don't need extra money to heat our homes. I believe money should go where it's needed the most. Sadly there are pensioners who do need the money and won't get it because they haven't claimed pension credit when they should.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

👍

My neighbour complained to me about losing his winter fuel allowance. He’d seen my vote Labour poster and clearly holds me personally responsible.
He drives a Mercedes, lives in a 4 bed detached and is recently back from a 3 week 5* cruise, not his first this year. This kind of thinking is a mystery to me.

This kind of thinking is a mystery to me

It's called greed.

eggplant

*This kind of thinking is a mystery to me*

It's called greed.

Indeed it is!

Are you serious Cossy and eggplant? One Mercedes, one detached 4 bedroom house and holidays when retired? That’s greed? Not really is it? I guess the man quoted has never been a politician? That’s where real greed kicks in?
And could I point out that Boris Johnson was not the last prime minister - Rishi Sunak seems to have got by without handouts from supporters for clothes and spectacles. Boris Johnson didn’t have the best dress sense and didn’t seem to bother too much, dishevelled was the look.

ronib

Are you serious Cossy and eggplant? One Mercedes, one detached 4 bedroom house and holidays when retired? That’s greed? Not really is it? I guess the man quoted has never been a politician? That’s where real greed kicks in?
And could I point out that Boris Johnson was not the last prime minister - Rishi Sunak seems to have got by without handouts from supporters for clothes and spectacles. Boris Johnson didn’t have the best dress sense and didn’t seem to bother too much, dishevelled was the look.

That’s not greed, that’s great, whinging about the removal of his WFA is greed!

ronib

Are you serious Cossy and eggplant? One Mercedes, one detached 4 bedroom house and holidays when retired? That’s greed? Not really is it? I guess the man quoted has never been a politician? That’s where real greed kicks in?
And could I point out that Boris Johnson was not the last prime minister - Rishi Sunak seems to have got by without handouts from supporters for clothes and spectacles. Boris Johnson didn’t have the best dress sense and didn’t seem to bother too much, dishevelled was the look.

Sunak is a multi millionaire and Johnson took full advantage of freebies

Cossy I don’t believe that Sunak or Johnson would have taken away the WFA. I would rather have a multi millionaire in charge than someone who wants to become wealthy through public office.

When I was looking at MP's declared donations I recall seeing that Sunak had some of his helicopter flights paid for by a donor. I'll see if I can find the link again.

A large house, expensive car and more than one expensive holiday a year? Complaining about losing the WFA? That's not greed [Hmm]

Sounds pretty greedy to me.

We know where you stand now anyway ronib. Rich people are clearly entitled to tax free discretionary winter fuel payments in your world. Unsurprisingly most of the electorate don’t agree.

Just for the record we have the lowest state pension among EU countries. To take £300 away from that isn’t a good look and then give generously in foreign aid is a strange way for government to care for its citizens.

Casdon most of the electorate have dropped out of exercising their rights - hence one of the lowest turnouts in recent times.