Another long wait for justice

Feel so sorry for those who lost loved ones in Grenfell and in any of these scandals who are still looking for justice.
They always say that this should never happen again but unless there is accountability for those involved of course it will happen again.
And for goodness sake let’s stop ignoring those who speak up or issue warnings.

Why does somebody always say something like "Lessons have been learned" about various tragedies and miscarriages of justice and then subsequent events prove that they haven't?

Btw didn’t address the OPs question - why it takes so long. I really haven’t a clue but obviously must be terrible for those mourning their loss, having this dragged out for years. My guess it that various parties/agencies being accused of negligence hire the very best legal representation to fight their corner and so it drags on.

TBH I’m appalled that it’s taken 7 years, and still nobody has properly been held accountable. Nor (AFAIK) have the building regs yet been changed from the ‘guidance’ builders are free to ignore.

And how much has this enquiry cost?? I absolutely dread to think.

Angela Rayner is reported as being ' unhappy' with the rate of progress in removing unsafe cladding from buildings but what is she actually DOING about it?

How much value do you put on lives lost through the negligence of others?

British justice is a farcical circus protecting those with the money to get representation. It isn't justice as I know it and it isn't fair.

I am always impressed by the dignity of the survivors and the families of the murdered, in the face of the those responsible trying to blame someone else and refusing to accept culpability.

We have people in this country blaming poor people for their anti-social behaviour yet dereliction of public duty and lack of accountability for monitoring standards in the service and manufacturing industries is far more anti-social.

We're living in the wild west where it doesn't matter if you break the law- there's always a way to wheedle your way out if you're part of the establishment.

keepingquiet

How much value do you put on lives lost through the negligence of others?

British justice is a farcical circus protecting those with the money to get representation. It isn't justice as I know it and it isn't fair.

I am always impressed by the dignity of the survivors and the families of the murdered, in the face of the those responsible trying to blame someone else and refusing to accept culpability.

We have people in this country blaming poor people for their anti-social behaviour yet dereliction of public duty and lack of accountability for monitoring standards in the service and manufacturing industries is far more anti-social.

We're living in the wild west where it doesn't matter if you break the law- there's always a way to wheedle your way out if you're part of the establishment.

Well said.

Grantanow

Angela Rayner is reported as being ' unhappy' with the rate of progress in removing unsafe cladding from buildings but what is she actually DOING about it?

Having just listened to Angela Raynor on Today, it would seem that the Current Government will be accelerating the removal of unsafe cladding, by way of legal action . The criminal proceedings are in the hands of the police. I expect there is a need for evidence to be cast iron so that those responsible are held fully responsible.
Of course, as with many things coming to light, the last Government were in control over the previous 7 years. Maybe the question should be ‘ what did they do to speed up the cladding removal
‘

Babs03

Btw didn’t address the OPs question - why it takes so long. I really haven’t a clue but obviously must be terrible for those mourning their loss, having this dragged out for years. My guess it that various parties/agencies being accused of negligence hire the very best legal representation to fight their corner and so it drags on.

My comment was a direct reference the fact that the 'lessons to have been learned' was supposed to be, not to take so long for justice to be done. Sorry I did not make myself clear.

The lawyers will have done very well out of it, that’s for sure.

@indigo8

That’s ok was rectifying my own mistake in not replying to the OP. Is so much to say about this terrible tragedy that obvs everyone will want to express their disgust in their own way. Is just too awful for words.

I don't know why police investigations had to wait until after the inquiry was completed.

Surely the police could have been compiling their own evidence, to be amended if needed in the light of the report, so that they could proceed more quickly with any prosecutions deemed necessary?

The police need evidence. Last night one of the survivors claimed that when the companies involved were asked for paperwork they 'dumped' so much it took years to sort through as so much wasn't even relevant to the enquiry. I think they should be charged with wasting police time on a massive scale. They just dont care.
Many MPs also hot footed it out of the chamber yesterday after PMQs, probably because they thought the report wasn't relevant to them. Such disrespect to the survivors and families watching from the gallery.
I feel ashamed of living in this morally bankrupt country.

Grantanow

Angela Rayner is reported as being ' unhappy' with the rate of progress in removing unsafe cladding from buildings but what is she actually DOING about it?

Labour have been in power for 2 months, the Conservatives let this situation go on for the last 8 years. I don't think AR will make concrete promises about how quickly she can change things without being certain of what is possible.

I feel very sad for everyone whose life have been affected by this and hope we see some prosecutions. I find it appalling that only half of the buildings that are affected with this cladding have had work started. It must be dreadful knowing that you are living in a potential tinderbox.

Justice protects those with money and influence - end of story.

I believe the delays are due to our judicial system and the fact those in power never learn any lessons. The Scottish parliament was given £94 million to deal with the remit of dangerous cladding and so far all they’ve spend is approx £9 million and when challenged on this John Swinney trotted out all the usual excuses it’s not their fault, it’s Westminster that are causing the delay or the other one was it’s complicated. Others will die will all parties sit on their hands

The number of organisations to be investigated will be enormous. Yesterday news item suggested will be 3 years before actual investigations into individuals, companies, authorities, even Fire Service will even begin.

The son of a friend owns a flat, I think in Slough, which has the cladding on it and he cannot sell it as a consequence. He has moved jobs to another part of the country and can’t afford another property. So it’s not just Grenfell Tower but loads of other properties which are dangerous fire hazards. They need to be sorted urgently.

I believe the cladding was permitted due to our relaxed building regulations and being used in Europe.

keepingquiet

The police need evidence. Last night one of the survivors claimed that when the companies involved were asked for paperwork they 'dumped' so much it took years to sort through as so much wasn't even relevant to the enquiry. I think they should be charged with wasting police time on a massive scale. They just dont care.
Many MPs also hot footed it out of the chamber yesterday after PMQs, probably because they thought the report wasn't relevant to them. Such disrespect to the survivors and families watching from the gallery.
I feel ashamed of living in this morally bankrupt country.

As do I, it was a disgrace on all sides of the house!!

Grantanow

Angela Rayner is reported as being ' unhappy' with the rate of progress in removing unsafe cladding from buildings but what is she actually DOING about it?

Be fair, two months in power, parliament in recess for a large proportion of this time!

The last government did launch a scheme in 2023 for cladding but it doesn't seem to have enough "teeth". Its a scheme not a law.

Although the scheme says, "Regulators have warned building owners they will face robust enforcement action if they stall on remediation"

July 2023.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-launches-biggest-cladding-removal-scheme#:~:text=The%20full%20opening%20of%20the,developer%20cannot%20be%20made%20to

The robust enforcement isn't described - ie, who identifies culprits and how and what robust enforcement action actually means

I'd like to see stronger laws but the question of what they should be and how enforced, who should initiate action, I don't understand enough.

25Avalon

The son of a friend owns a flat, I think in Slough, which has the cladding on it and he cannot sell it as a consequence. He has moved jobs to another part of the country and can’t afford another property. So it’s not just Grenfell Tower but loads of other properties which are dangerous fire hazards. They need to be sorted urgently.

I believe the cladding was permitted due to our relaxed building regulations and being used in Europe.

I think there are thousands of people whose lives have been put on hold and having to pay extortionate fees for building mistakes that are not their fault, and are the result of the fire at Grenfell. Imagine not being able to move and having the daily worry of feeling unsafe.. it is wicked that the government haven't prioritised this issue.. and made the builders accept financial responsibility..

I also don't know why the inquiry has taken so long...

Exactly, and I heard an interesting interview on Radio 4 this week...explaining that in this country UK everything has to be done in order and process, no parallel work. Hence its takes so much longer to get answers etc as nothing starts when there is an official enquiry ongoing!! ( unlike many other countries)

We do have a different system to other countries. In France they have ‘examining justices’ who direct the process of collecting evidence as well as making decisions. I don’t know if it is quicker though. In Finland, you cannot directly sue a doctor for negligence - the state has a system for providing compensation for medical negligence and then addresses issues of incompetence etc. Others might know more than me about how these systems work and whether they produce quicker results. It has taken many years and successive governments to reach this position - there are unlikely to be quick fixes. We are want to pay less tax and for things to be cheaper, without always thinking about the consequences.