What Will You Do With 10 Million Frozen Pensioners, Rachel?

BevSec

Casdon, .I do not think of it as a “freebie”. All state pensioners should be entitled to it in my opinion. How about all MPs and Starmer not expecting “freebies”. Maybe you would like to give us your opinion on that as well?

It's not a freebie, like bus passes, the Christmas bonus and free TV licences, it is a benefit which was given by a government but not incorporated into the State Pension thus can be removed at any time.

It would have been better to increase the State Pension to bring it more in line with other European countries.

Perhaps if some families stopped spending the insane amount of money, that even one packet of cigarettes costs, plus beer, they may be able to afford to feed their children! As someone who used to take 'deprived' children on holiday I do have experience of this! Children would arrive in awful, almost, rags. I would provide them with some almost new clothes. Next time they came - back to rags. When asked where the new clothes were, I was told 'Dad sold them for his beer'!!
There are too many people who are expert at 'getting something for nothing' at the expense of others and that includes politicians!

If you know any, could you and them to me, then please?
I havent quite got the knack of "Rocking up to the food bank" for bags and bags of shopping yet.

eggplant

BevSec

Growstuff, we have the lifestyle you describe, what is wrong with that?

Nothing, but a shred of humility and kindness is always handy.

Indeed!

Maybe the question should have been extended to, for example, "How much to GNers need for the lifestyle they'd like?" (or something). It's blatantly obvious that people don't actually need some of the stuff they buy with their money. Nevertheless, if they've got the money, nobody is stopping them from spending it as they wish.

However, as you say eggplant, maybe it wouldn't go amiss if those people actually understood that there are those who don't have the resources to buy what they think they need. For those people without, the concept of "need" is something different.

growstuff some parents are feckless, not all by a long chalk, but feckless and disorganised. We had a neighbour like that, they were well off, nice house but I would regularly see one or other of the children rushing down to the corner shop on school days before breakfast and coming back with milk or breakfast cereal.

She was a lovely lady, I lked her, but she would have been hard pressed to get organised enough to make a cup of tea.

TanaMa

Perhaps if some families stopped spending the insane amount of money, that even one packet of cigarettes costs, plus beer, they may be able to afford to feed their children! As someone who used to take 'deprived' children on holiday I do have experience of this! Children would arrive in awful, almost, rags. I would provide them with some almost new clothes. Next time they came - back to rags. When asked where the new clothes were, I was told 'Dad sold them for his beer'!!
There are too many people who are expert at 'getting something for nothing' at the expense of others and that includes politicians!

Aha! Maybe those pesky pensioners who spend any surplus on bingo or coach trips (apologies for the horrendous stereotypes) could afford to heat their homes.

For goodness sake! As I wrote before, it's really no wonder that some people have little sympathy for pensioners when they come out with this sort of stuff.

No doubt there are feckless pensioners, too.
They get everywhere.

That doesnt take away from the fact that breakfast clubs are open and available to all, and will be taken into account as valid childcare provision when applying for work.

No doubt there are feckless pensioners, too.
They get everywhere.

I've seen some on the pub, drinking beer.
I even saw one smoking the other week! (No-one I knew)

Phew!
I wouldn't imagine they'd be your sort.

Eggplant, its the LP mentality of envy that comes across strongly in some posts. I have paid a lot of tax in my working life and still now retired. Stamp duty for our last house was £17,000.

Its just spite to begrudge WFA to all pensioners after the amount of tax we have paid in. My question still stands, if its ok to take away WFA what about Starmer and his freebies?

Wyllow3
You are wrong that most pensioners can afford to heat without the WFA , most are just over the pension credit limit so can’t get help but they csnt do without help. I hsve one friend who sits in her coat hat and boots as she isn’t entitled to help, she had the heating and water on 1 hour a day at 64 degrees last winter .
Also as a previous council employee I dealt with many many pensioners who unlike the young of today won’t accept what they call charity and won’t go into debt as they call it by putting the heating on when they can’t afford to pay for it. I really think most people do not realise the possible catastrophe this will cause .

M0nica

growstuff some parents are feckless, not all by a long chalk, but feckless and disorganised. We had a neighbour like that, they were well off, nice house but I would regularly see one or other of the children rushing down to the corner shop on school days before breakfast and coming back with milk or breakfast cereal.

She was a lovely lady, I lked her, but she would have been hard pressed to get organised enough to make a cup of tea.

You obviously didn't send your own children to a breakfast club, so I think I am justified in claiming that I know more about the lives of those parents who do send their children.

In my experience, the vast majority of parents who send their children to breakfast clubs are very far from being feckless. Generally, they are working parents (sometimes single parents) who are doing everything they can to provide for themselves.

TanaMa, your experiences are not shared by me, after 40+ years teaching, most of it in areas of high deprivation, and a further period as a school governor.
I am saddened that your time with these children has led you to such a view.

ruthiek

Wyllow3
You are wrong that most pensioners can afford to heat without the WFA , most are just over the pension credit limit so can’t get help but they csnt do without help. I hsve one friend who sits in her coat hat and boots as she isn’t entitled to help, she had the heating and water on 1 hour a day at 64 degrees last winter .
Also as a previous council employee I dealt with many many pensioners who unlike the young of today won’t accept what they call charity and won’t go into debt as they call it by putting the heating on when they can’t afford to pay for it. I really think most people do not realise the possible catastrophe this will cause .

Hi ruthiek I think you've got the wrong poster, I have always made it clear I do not agree with cutting WFA except for those who do not need it.

I did however question the O/P figure that 10 million would freeze out of a total of 12 million pensioners.

And I repeat , mine needed cover before school because I was a teacher and was expected to be in work at least one hour before the class arrived - there's some irony there, perhaps.

BevSec

Eggplant, its the LP mentality of envy that comes across strongly in some posts. I have paid a lot of tax in my working life and still now retired. Stamp duty for our last house was £17,000.

Its just spite to begrudge WFA to all pensioners after the amount of tax we have paid in. My question still stands, if its ok to take away WFA what about Starmer and his freebies?

I don't envy you or your views. Each to their own.

I'm not massively interested in either the LP or politics.

I feel sad and embarassed to be British.

ruthiek

Wyllow3
You are wrong that most pensioners can afford to heat without the WFA , most are just over the pension credit limit so can’t get help but they csnt do without help. I hsve one friend who sits in her coat hat and boots as she isn’t entitled to help, she had the heating and water on 1 hour a day at 64 degrees last winter .
Also as a previous council employee I dealt with many many pensioners who unlike the young of today won’t accept what they call charity and won’t go into debt as they call it by putting the heating on when they can’t afford to pay for it. I really think most people do not realise the possible catastrophe this will cause .

The WFA would have been worth about a £1 per day. How much do people spend on their fuel? My guess is over £100 a month on average over the year. The WFA is only a small percentage of that. Yes, people might have be a bit more careful with their fuel, but I do not accept that it's a case of having a straightforward choice between a "comfortable" temperature" 24/7 and not thinking about using fuel for cooking and not having those things at all.

As I've written before, I'm one of those people who has income just over the threshold for Pension Credit (and WFA), so I speak from experience. I'm conscious of my fuel usage, but there is absolutely no way I'll freeze.

PS. My personal view is that Reeves has made a big mistake, but that doesn't change the fact that I also think there is a lot of exaggeration and scare-mongering.

Eggplant, in what way are you taking exception to my view that all state pensioners should be paid WFA?

BevSec I've paid a lot of tax in my working life too, so don't hit us all with your moral superiority. And don't even try to accuse me of envy! I have never been happier in my life. To be perfectly honest, I feel a tad sorry for people who seem to think they need money to achieve contentment. They don't seem to have what I have, which no amount of money could ever buy.

PS. And why do you feel so defensive anyway? This started with my answer to a question, which was nothing about how people should spend their money, but about the definition of need.

BevSec

Eggplant, its the LP mentality of envy that comes across strongly in some posts. I have paid a lot of tax in my working life and still now retired. Stamp duty for our last house was £17,000.

Its just spite to begrudge WFA to all pensioners after the amount of tax we have paid in. My question still stands, if its ok to take away WFA what about Starmer and his freebies?

Yes BevSec, I’ve also paid, and continue to pay, plenty of tax, and I know many others who are Labour supporters have, and do, too. We aren’t all on the breadline, nor do we pretend to be. However we want the WFA to go where it’s needed, not to those of us who can manage without it. It’s about social responsibility.

Chocolatelovinggran

And I repeat , mine needed cover before school because I was a teacher and was expected to be in work at least one hour before the class arrived - there's some irony there, perhaps.

Exactly! I was a teacher too and it was always frowned upon that I couldn't possibly be at work at 7.30 because my children's schools weren't open for them. Oh the irony!

Casdon and Growstuff, its all very well but neither of you have answered my question about Starmer accepting LARGE amounts of freebies whilst stopping the WFA ? I stand totally unapologetic about my views, which are probably the complete opposite of yours. starmer will leave this country in a complete mess. I voted Reform as it is the only party which seems to care a fig about us. I will not argue against either of you any longer, you have your views, I have mine and we are all entitled to how we feel.

I’m 67, single (divorced) have already lost thousands due to the pension age increase, I’m a waspi woman, have been a nurse for almost 50 years and am still working because I can’t afford not to. It s a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that pensioners all vote conservative, I’ve never voted conservative in my life and I’m certainly not going to start now, ( nor do I vote Labour but that’s another story) I do think sadly that Labour have shot themselves in the foot with this one but I also understand that to get our public services back on track there have to be cuts somewhere so I suspect they found themselves caught between a rock and a hard place, we need to see if things improve I guess over the next few years

BevSec

Casdon and Growstuff, its all very well but neither of you have answered my question about Starmer accepting LARGE amounts of freebies whilst stopping the WFA ? I stand totally unapologetic about my views, which are probably the complete opposite of yours. starmer will leave this country in a complete mess. I voted Reform as it is the only party which seems to care a fig about us. I will not argue against either of you any longer, you have your views, I have mine and we are all entitled to how we feel.

What is the main thrust of Reforms policies please and how does that appeal to you?

How do they care?

I haven’t ignored your question about Starmer BevSec, I’ve said I already posted what I think about his actions on at least two other threads which are still live, and frankly it gets boring repeating the same things on multiple threads.
I wouldn’t argue that your views are completely different to mine, but I wish you wouldn’t make assumptions about other people just because they don’t agree with you.