Anniversary of Israeli massacre

Other views are sickening

The BBC always give what the sources are for us to make our minds up on.

Problem is that Israel will not give access to independent journalists and opportunities for verification despite calls from Amnesty.

In the BBC programme I would not expect the 4 people to discuss anything that could put them at risk from nay involved party, whatever they knew.

I wonder why Israel will not give access to independent journalists???? (not)

Are there independent journalists ?

I thought the three documentaries I saw on BBC 1, BBBC 2, and Channel 4, gave fair and unbiased information. In the case of the two BBC documentaries all the footage was taken from the filmed evidence gathered from the victim’s phones, and the body cams of the perpetrators. The Channel 4 documentary was mainly taken from the phones of the four protagonists, either their filmed experiences or themselves speaking into their phones. There was some other footage which may have come from elsewhere. All filmed within Gaza though.

So I think a fair picture can be formed of what happened on 07/10/23 in Israel, and what has been happening in Gaza subsequently.

Independent or not. Why are they not given access?

And the boycott is far and wide on any news sent by Palestinians

www.facebook.com/share/v/iUwApScWv5nipkTW/ as explained above. Here re Meta.

Anniebach

Are there independent journalists ?

I believe, yes, and that not allowing them in prevents full access to information.

I don't think they are the only country or group that try to influence information of course.

Independent journalists are free from outside influence and can report what they see. They are essential as people need to know what is happening without their news being edited.

I think journalists going into Gaza presents many problems, it’s a dangerous situation still there and IDF force's have more pressing worries than looking after members of the press .If they go ‘off piste’ which journalists like to do they could be mistakenly shot or killed by hamas or even taken hostage by hamas.Safer all round for them not to be there.

Journalists have always been present in war torn countries. It's how we get the truth of what's happening. The IDF won't protect them. They have to look after themselves and many are used to working in countries in conflict. Some have been killed but their job is to uncover the truth in this case about Hamas and Israeli
action.

This war is different AGAA4 as usually there are two opposing armies with some codes of conflict even given mistakes and friendly fire.In Gaza the IDF are fighting terrorists who have no codes whatsoever and who pop up like rats from the tunnels.It would be too easy for them to be grabbed as hostages or mistakenly shot.In short, they would get in the way.

The codes of conflict have been broken by all involved. The US have sent a strongly worded letter to Israel
They have threatened to send no more weapons if Israel carries out their threat of starving the Palestinians.
I believe starving your enemy breaks the code.
Oreo I know you support Israel and I respect your view. I am just trying to get a more balanced view.

Netanyahu: “It was not the U.N. resolution that established the State of Israel, but rather the victory achieved in the War of Independence with the blood of heroic fighters, many of whom were Holocaust survivors — including from the Vichy regime in France.”

Netanyahu’s right – the Arab nations that controlled most of the land that would’ve been handed to Israel rejected the proposition because the majority of their land would be ceded to a foreign nation, while the local Arabs who made up two-thirds of the population at the time would be shuffled into smaller territories divided by Israel.

Grany

This is what's happening in Gaza IDF war crimes shocking.

youtu.be/gEo813rYm8g?si=gQwheHwmNvcjk_pF

I have seen this Grany and I agree it is truly shocking.

How can your last paragraph make Netanyahu right? I have re- read it several times, and it makes no sense.

You are aware that the territory given in 1948 (which was illegally TAKEN) has been expanded in the most illegal, cruel and dehumanising of ways.

But that's OK, as they are all rats with no code.

War reporters have always got in the way, somehow- to attempt to tell the truth. There is no difference here.

Anniebach

So much antisemitism, how can Jews feel safe anywhere

This is NOT anti-semitism. The reason more and more Jews all over the world are joining in. This is anti Netanyahu's unlawful genocide and systematic destruction of Palestine and Palestinians.

Are all those Jews antisemites.

Islamophobia is rife in the UK, that is clear.

For Netanyahu and the IDF, and many here it seems- all Palestinians are terrorist by nature, and rats out of holes to be shot.

One thing is for sure, every death of a child or mother, any maiming and lost limb-will create more terrorists- or freedom fighters, depending on how someone looks at what is happening. Peace and safety it will NOT bring, that is for 100% certain.

Fleurpepper

For Netanyahu and the IDF, and many here it seems- all Palestinians are terrorist by nature, and rats out of holes to be shot.

One thing is for sure, every death of a child or mother, any maiming and lost limb-will create more terrorists- or freedom fighters, depending on how someone looks at what is happening. Peace and safety it will NOT bring, that is for 100% certain.

The rats out of the holes ( tunnels) are all hamas and not simply Palestinians who happen to live in Gaza, so don’t try to twist words please.
They are terrorists and not freedom fighters,others may view them as that but they are a proscribed terrorist group.Do freedom fighters murder whole families as they sleep?
The IDF have killed the hamas leader, Sinwar, in Gaza, what a coup.It won’t eradicate the idea of hamas but has wittled them down in Gaza to a fantastic extent.

Then it is time to stop the killing in Gaza, use every means available to achieve a peace and get the remaining hostages released.

Fleurpepper

Anniebach

So much antisemitism, how can Jews feel safe anywhere

This is NOT anti-semitism. The reason more and more Jews all over the world are joining in. This is anti Netanyahu's unlawful genocide and systematic destruction of Palestine and Palestinians.

Are all those Jews antisemites.

Islamophobia is rife in the UK, that is clear.

The loss of any innocent civilian's life is unacceptable. I'm sure most decent human beings would agree.

However Fleurpepper, I'm not sure you have read every post on this thread, but there are some people posting here who are sailing a wee bit close to the wind with regards to anti-Semitic feelings/sentiments/remarks - call it what you will.

Many will recognise it as hiding in plain sight.

The usual "I'm not racist/homophobic/anti-Semitic BUT"....type of people. Alive and kicking on Gransnet. Unfortunately.

For me this was distressing. the holocaust referred to as
- something which happened in the past

Israelis are celebrating the death of Hamas terrorist Yahya Sinwar, who orchestrated the 07/10/23 attack.

foxie48

Then it is time to stop the killing in Gaza, use every means available to achieve a peace and get the remaining hostages released.

Yes.

Neither Islamophobia nor Anti-Semitism is acceptable in GN. I suggest either calling it out or reporting it in to GNHQ.

And yet.

Meanwhile, the U.S. appears poised to support Israel no matter how it continues to carry out that war. According to a report by POLITICO released on Wednesday, the top White House official working on the humanitarian situation in Gaza said the quiet part out loud earlier this year when she said that Israel is one of a “tight circle of very few allies” that the U.S. will never publicly oppose or “hold anything back that they want.”

And there are many posts sailing very close to the wind, and often way beyond- in being Islamophobic. Every child killed, every one having to watch loved ones burnt alive or maimed, will become the new 'terrorists' Oreo. All Palestinians now support Hamas in a way they never did before.

As doctors volunteering in Gaza and now Lebanon say, they only care about suffering and pain if the person is white. If they are Palestinians, no-one cares.' The rats our of holes may seem to be about terrorists- but for some apply to anyone in Gaza or Palestine. That is the truth. Human suffering seems to only apply to some, for some (too many).