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The UK population is in decline

(63 Posts)
Grantanow Thu 17-Oct-24 10:59:12

The UK replacement rate (births minus deaths) is declining and that is helpfully offset by increased immigration. Should the government take measures to increase the birthrate - a bounty for extra kids, family allowance for all kids, a cheap rail and bus ticket for large families (as in France) and meantime increase immigration for those of working age from the EU and elsewhere?

EmmaAlva Thu 17-Oct-24 11:02:14

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EmmaAlva Thu 17-Oct-24 11:02:44

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25Avalon Thu 17-Oct-24 11:06:09

The UK indigenous population is in decline but that of ‘immigrant’ families is growing. It is estimated their population will swell by 6 million.

maddyfour Thu 17-Oct-24 11:06:34

I would like to see higher immigration from the EU. I have met many immigrants from the EU and they are hard working people.

AGAA4 Thu 17-Oct-24 11:11:55

I think people are having less children for economic reasons amongst others. Two of my ACs only have one child each. The days of large families are over. Young adults with skills coming into the country would help.

Allira Thu 17-Oct-24 11:15:47

Grantanow

The UK replacement rate (births minus deaths) is declining and that is helpfully offset by increased immigration. Should the government take measures to increase the birthrate - a bounty for extra kids, family allowance for all kids, a cheap rail and bus ticket for large families (as in France) and meantime increase immigration for those of working age from the EU and elsewhere?

No!

The only way for this Earth to recover for future generations and for our wildlife to survive is for populations to decline, not increase.

TerriBull Thu 17-Oct-24 11:17:12

I've read that population is in decline in great swathes of the western world, it's not just here. A combination of the unaffordability of setting up home, childcare, fewer women opting for marriage/partner and careers taking precedence.

CariadAgain Thu 17-Oct-24 11:20:24

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Sarnia Thu 17-Oct-24 11:27:59

Increase immigration?! The latest figures, which may need alteration, is 1.2 million. How many more would you like, Grantanow?
For a start we need to get those on benefits who are capable of work back into employment. It's become a lifestyle choice for far too many. It has to stop.

AGAA4 Thu 17-Oct-24 11:39:46

Is the main problem that there will not be enough young people to bear the burden of so many older people?

Wyllow3 Thu 17-Oct-24 12:05:29

It's a key one, both in terms of "looking after" and people in work paying taxes. It's probably cheaper in the short medium term to bring people in.
Just as well that some families whose parents were originally immigrants are contributing to the birth population, it still doesnt bring numbers up to "replacement" level.

Sarnia agree about people able to work and not, but how to change it?

mae13 Thu 17-Oct-24 12:09:35

TerriBull

I've read that population is in decline in great swathes of the western world, it's not just here. A combination of the unaffordability of setting up home, childcare, fewer women opting for marriage/partner and careers taking precedence.

And I hope we won't see world governments attempting to guilt-trip women into becoming breeding machines in order to produce the next generation of workforce fodder to keep big business corporations happy.
Looking back in history, the Third Reich promoted motherhood in order to produce a master race as a "noble" ambition for young women. Never again, surely?

Norah Thu 17-Oct-24 12:10:14

No.

World population is too large - birthrate needs to decrease.

Gillycats Thu 17-Oct-24 12:27:12

The birth rate needs to decrease globally. It’s simply not sustainable.

Ziplok Thu 17-Oct-24 12:30:47

There are already too many humans in this world of ours.

Wyllow3 Thu 17-Oct-24 12:35:37

People in countries where the birth rare exceeds the death rate do so for economic and social reasons, not within our influence: in fact less so than before, as the kind of aid package to help with for example birth control shrinks.

Sarnia Thu 17-Oct-24 12:43:15

Wyllow3

It's a key one, both in terms of "looking after" and people in work paying taxes. It's probably cheaper in the short medium term to bring people in.
Just as well that some families whose parents were originally immigrants are contributing to the birth population, it still doesnt bring numbers up to "replacement" level.

Sarnia agree about people able to work and not, but how to change it?

Wyllow3 Perhaps those fit enough for work could be given 3 months to find a job as their benefits would be stopped after that time. So many these days say they have depression and similar issues but I think a good antidote to those who are using that as an excuse is getting yourself up out of bed in the morning and going to do a day's work. I can understand Labour's need to make savings and getting the benefit system sorted out seems as good a place as any.

Allira Thu 17-Oct-24 12:50:19

Wyllow3

People in countries where the birth rare exceeds the death rate do so for economic and social reasons, not within our influence: in fact less so than before, as the kind of aid package to help with for example birth control shrinks.

I doubt that the women in these countries have so many children through choice when they may not be able to feed them because of famine, conflict or poverty. More aid is needed in the form of birth control and education.
It amazes me that Africa is such a fertile continent in parts yet the logistics of transporting food from one country to another seem to be impossible.

MadeInYorkshire Thu 17-Oct-24 12:51:31

Perhaps those of you who think that those people who are off work due to health conditions which may be depression and anxiety don’t realise that getting help from our healthcare system is nigh on IMPOSSIBLE!

Ladyleftfieldlover Thu 17-Oct-24 13:14:56

Surely there are far too many people in the world. We will run out of resources and then what?

My 93-year old uncle is worried that 4 out of his 9 great grandchildren don’t want children, but his eldest great granddaughter has three!

We need to look into having much smaller families. I know there is always the worry of not enough young people to look after us oldies, but over time and before the situation becomes very difficult, I am sure there will be new solutions in place.

If Brexit hadn’t happened I don’t think we’d be worried about who is and who isn’t coming to this country,

I am on a boat on the Rhone at the moment. It is wonderful that there are so many nationalities working together. It used to be like that in UK once.

nanna8 Thu 17-Oct-24 13:15:48

It is in decline in Australia,too. We are doing our bit,though - just heard another gt grandchild is on the way! Thrilled to bits.

Wyllow3 Thu 17-Oct-24 13:20:22

Until that is addressed MadeInYorkshire there will be more people unable to work.

In theory there is all kinds of support to get back to work
www.gov.uk/moving-from-benefits-to-work#:~:text=Speak%20to%20your%20local%20Jobcentre,help%20you%20back%20into%20work.

In practice job centres don't have the time to really do this. Swamped.

Yes there are "refusals to work". problem with cutting benefits if if there is a whole family involved, and who and how makes the decision about the cutting.

IOMGran Thu 17-Oct-24 13:25:41

Wen need to stop measuring success in terms of growth. We need to measure it in terms of quality of life and happiness.

Sarnia Thu 17-Oct-24 13:28:43

MadeInYorkshire

Perhaps those of you who think that those people who are off work due to health conditions which may be depression and anxiety don’t realise that getting help from our healthcare system is nigh on IMPOSSIBLE!

Yes, MadeInYorkshire it has been well documented but it isn't helped by those who are jumping on the depression/mental health bandwagon. For a start it is disrespectful to those who genuinely have any of the distressing mental health conditions and, as you point out, completely clogs up the system. Too many these days are using this as a reason not to work. You can see if someone has a physical disability but it is all too easy to get away with a largely unseen condition. Depression and anxiety are abused by too many these days as a useful excuse for being lazy.