Will Messrs Reeves and Raynor Still Be Around This Time Next Year?

ronib

growstuff what about play time and lunch time for socialising with other children? How about family time as a part of childhood too?

It's not the same as the beginning of the day. Sometimes children are bursting with news and want to chat to their friends. Not only that, but breakfast clubs ensure that all pupils are on site by the beginning of the day and ready to start work without feeling the need to chat at the beginning of lessons.

I'm baffled by your last question. We're talking about half an hour or so. How on earth do children not have family time?

In any case, there was a discussion about breakfast clubs a couple of weeks ago. I don't feel inclined to go over old ground.

Growstuff I am thinking more about the young children- 4 to 6 years old who might enjoy just being with mum for a bit longer. Very old fashioned I know.

eazybee
You have a good point about getting the numbers through. Our school only has 2 lunch sittings, but we have two halls.

Lunchtime, when almost all children are catered for either by school meal or packed lunch gives a far more realistic example of what would be needed if lots of parents, or even all parents, take up the free breakfast club provision.

Picture lunchtime provision for a 3 form entry primary (630)children or a 2 form entry (420) children,
then picture that possibility, with all the preparation, cooking, supervision, food storage and clearing away, before school starts or needs to use the space.

Examples of current paid before-school care don’t really provide an idea of numbers, although someone will undoubtedly leap in and say all children at their school are catered for, or unless, as in some of the village schools near us, the numbers are much lower.
E.g. one village school has fewer children in the whole school, than we have in one year group.

I am generally in favour of breakfast clubs, but I worry their implementation may be at the expense of other more important areas of learning. Now that children can join the school's pre-school at 2+ years, it is better for the accommodation to be used for that purpose rather than a breakfast club. I know of a couple of village schools that are having to make the choice, either/or, because the premises simply aren't big enough to offer both.

ronib

Growstuff I am thinking more about the young children- 4 to 6 years old who might enjoy just being with mum for a bit longer. Very old fashioned I know.

Is it old fashioned and ( dare I say it) may be preferable. But few families can afford to exist on one salary. The woman also daren't step away from a job or career.

I think it's horrible that 4 year olds are putting in a 10 hour day.

I think it's horrible that 4 year olds are putting in a 10 hour day

I agree with that. In the first year of school especially, they get so tired even just attending from 9 - 3.15pm let alone being rushed out to breakfast club then staying for after school clubs.
Poor little things.

The number of children attending primary schools is reducing.
Between 2019 and 2024, there was a 1.9 per cent decline, representing around 85,000 fewer pupils. Between 2024 and 2028, the number is projected to fall by around 4.5 per cent (205,000 pupils).

Schools that offer extended hours will be the ones that flourish, because parents will opt to send their children there. My daughter went to breakfast club in our local rural primary school 30 years ago, and lots of children from outside the catchment area went there for that reason. It will disadvantage less well off parents if their local schools can’t provide extended hours, because they are less able to travel.

Younger children don't really need any more than 5 minutes at the start of the day to have a chat. Infact a lot of their interaction is physical puppy play, just excitement at being together. A quick burst is enough. This can be done at drop off time.

Our breakfast club was free for all children. It was set up in the school hall. The food offered was only cereals and toast, so no cooking apart from toasters. Water, milk, or juice was offered to drink. The take up was quite low, at most thirty children each day. After they had eaten the children had to sit in a corner with books for entertainment. To be honest, if there was a nicer option for your child, I would think it preferable. It was basic, but adequate, mostly used by parents who were rushing off to work.

jasper16

ronib

Growstuff I am thinking more about the young children- 4 to 6 years old who might enjoy just being with mum for a bit longer. Very old fashioned I know.

Is it old fashioned and ( dare I say it) may be preferable. But few families can afford to exist on one salary. The woman also daren't step away from a job or career.

I think it's horrible that 4 year olds are putting in a 10 hour day.

You forget that by the time children start school they will have been in nursery, so from the age of one they are used to being away from home for ten hours - it is already their normal. They do grow up to be perfectly normal, well adjusted adults too, surprisingly enough.

Where did everyone's children go while they worked?
I'm often surprised by how many women did work - so what were the arrangements for your own children?

Where did they go?

MissAdventure

Where did everyone's children go while they worked?
I'm often surprised by how many women did work - so what were the arrangements for your own children?

Where did they go?

I think there may have been extended family and also children were left in the care of elder siblings. Also some fended for themselves.

Casdon

jasper16

ronib

Growstuff I am thinking more about the young children- 4 to 6 years old who might enjoy just being with mum for a bit longer. Very old fashioned I know.

Is it old fashioned and ( dare I say it) may be preferable. But few families can afford to exist on one salary. The woman also daren't step away from a job or career.

I think it's horrible that 4 year olds are putting in a 10 hour day.

You forget that by the time children start school they will have been in nursery, so from the age of one they are used to being away from home for ten hours - it is already their normal. They do grow up to be perfectly normal, well adjusted adults too, surprisingly enough.

10 hours a day for a tiny is too long on my opinion. Its particularly tough in winter when children are often unwell.Also they are not just playing and having a nap. They are subjected to the rigours of the National Curriculm.

Oh, latchkey kids.

It’s your opinion though jasper16, it’s not an actual fact. Parenting is exceptionally important to children, but good parents don’t come in a single stay at home to look after your children full time yourself package.

Of course it's my opinion.

Here's another one, the ridiculously long hours, lack of free play,constant competition and testing are contributing to behaviours which are being pathologised.

ronib

Growstuff I am thinking more about the young children- 4 to 6 years old who might enjoy just being with mum for a bit longer. Very old fashioned I know.

We've had this conversation many times on GN. I'm not interested in repeating what I've written many times.

PS. Why do you have to use the baby talk word "mum"? Is mother a dirty word now?

MissAdventure

Oh, latchkey kids.

I was one of those. I also was minder for my two younger siblings.

growstuff I don’t understand why you need to pick on the use of mum rather than mother. Baby talk? Is this even worth mentioning?

escaped

Younger children don't really need any more than 5 minutes at the start of the day to have a chat. Infact a lot of their interaction is physical puppy play, just excitement at being together. A quick burst is enough. This can be done at drop off time.

In your opinion!

There are, of course, children whose parents have to be at work before the start of the school day.

I really do wonder how my children and all the children who went to primary school with them ended up so well-balanced. If GNers were right, that really wouldn't be the case.

People seem to forget that attitudes to bringing up children change all the time and that it was quite rare before WW2 for children to be brought up in a family with a parent who didn't do any work.

In your expert opinion!

I'm wondering where this assumption of a 10 hour day has come from.

Is it a 'normal' length of time for very young children to be in a nursery, or with a childminder?

People seem to forget that attitudes to bringing up children change all the time and that it was quite rare before WW2 for children to be brought up in a family with a parent who didn't do any work

Many women did work during WW2 but it was not the norm before then.

People seem to forget that attitudes to bringing up children change all the time and that it was quite rare before WW2 for children to be brought up in a family with a parent who didn't do any work.

I'm a bit 🤔 about that statement, growstuff.

allira I remember from my history lessons that women were forced to give up their paid jobs after the war because men returning from the war wanted to work.