Amsterdam attacks

I would be very anxious if I was a jew living here at the moment. there is a very large Jewish community near to where we live and it is so upsetting to see the security they have to have around the school and synagogue. This will get worse as this government is allowing it to go on in spades!

Yes, love0c, especially when red paint is thrown over Jewish schools by antisemites, and Jewish children are harassed and told to stay home for their safety.
One small part of me wants to say that Jews need to ignore this and carry on, and not see themselves as victims, but the bigger part of me knows how much fear and dread they feel going about their every day lives.
It is a hatred I don't understand.

love0c

I would be very anxious if I was a jew living here at the moment. there is a very large Jewish community near to where we live and it is so upsetting to see the security they have to have around the school and synagogue. This will get worse as this government is allowing it to go on in spades!

I agree it's going on and reprehensible, and we want it to stop, what more can the government do? How are they "allowing?" (genuine question, we want it to stop)

I did a check to see what they do already:

"The UK government has provided funding to protect Jewish schools and synagogues from antisemitism, including:
£54 million: New funding in 2024 to increase security at Jewish buildings, including schools and synagogues

£18 million: Previously allocated to the Community Security Trust (CST) until 2025

£3 million: Made available in October 2023 to support more than 480 Jewish community locations

The total funding up to 2028 is £72 million. The funding will be used to provide measures such as security guards, closed-circuit TV (CCTV), and alarm systems.

The government's funding is in response to the rise in antisemitism in the UK, which has been recorded as a record 4,103 incidents in 2023. The CST advises Britain's estimated 280,000 Jews on security matters".

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/community-security-trust-jewish-rishi-sunak-hamas-british-b2504331.html#

and

www.gov.uk/government/news/record-funding-will-protect-jewish-communities-from-harm

Oreo

Since my comments about terrorism from extremist Muslim groups such as Hezbollah have been deleted due no doubt to complaints by one or two posters there is little point in continuing this.
I cannot understand why the truth about this can’t be mentioned, it’s beyond bizarre.
I have already said what I think about antisemitism and I stand by it.It’s everywhere.

In what way can your version of the truth not be mentioned? If that were true, people wouldn't ever be allowed to mention anti-semitism or Muslim extremism and it's quite obvious that they are.

FWIW I didn't report your posts, which I didn't even read.

Monies to protect Synagogues and schools, we never heard of
any antisemites being charged for causing damage, it would
cause more and more damage and worse ?

The title of this thread is "Amsterdam attacks". There have been numerous threads on GN about antisemitism and it appears that this one has morphed into another.

I quite agree with you Oreo that the truth is important. That's why accuracy is so important. In this case, the catalyst for the ensuing violence was the behaviour of some racist Israeli fans, who have form for this kind of thing.

Anniebach

Monies to protect Synagogues and schools, we never heard of
any antisemites being charged for causing damage, it would
cause more and more damage and worse ?

Why don't you start a thread about that? The focus of this one is the attacks in Amsterdam. It would make more sense to lead the discussion towards football hooliganism and racism.

No, that would lead to more links from social media and 10 year old newspapers

But that's just it, growstuff, especially in the case of antisemitism, everything is intrinsically linked, so the discussion inevtiably spills into so many areas. You yourself on this thread mentioned a close family member who comes from a Muslim family, and how he might be affected. I doubt whether he is a football fan, and certainly not a hooligan either, but he fits into the bigger picture of the discussion.

escaped

But that's just it, growstuff, especially in the case of antisemitism, everything is intrinsically linked, so the discussion inevtiably spills into so many areas. You yourself on this thread mentioned a close family member who comes from a Muslim family, and how he might be affected. I doubt whether he is a football fan, and certainly not a hooligan either, but he fits into the bigger picture of the discussion.

No, I have not mentioned how my son-in-law might be affected. I'm curious to know why you doubt he's a football fan. He was born in Manchester, the home of one of England's most successful teams - why wouldn't he support them?

What I'm getting at escaped is that in this case, the violence in Amsterdam was instigated by racist Israeli football fans, who have a long history of racist chants, even against their own players if they are Arab or black.

The focus of most of the reporting has been about the subsequent attacks on Israeli fans, but hasn't mentioned what sparked it all off. The media has reported Netanyahu's claim that it was like Kristallnacht. If that were the case, Amsterdam resident Jews and their property would have been attacked - as far as I know, they weren't.

The point I have been trying to make is that reporting has been biased and that's been reinforced by some of the posts on here, which have insisted on taking the focus off the attacks themselves towards anti-semitism itself. I'm not denying that Arab/Jew tensions have been involved, but it would be good to see some accuracy and balance.

PS. I'd post some of the words from Maccabi Tel Aviv's chants, but I think the 'genteel' GN posters would be shocked and ask for them to be deleted. If I were an Arab living in Amsterdam, I wouldn't want foreigners shouting that kind of muck in my home city.

Anniebach

No, that would lead to more links from social media and 10 year old newspapers

What's that supposed to mean? It sounds like a sneer to me. Have you actually understood why I posted a 10 year old link? Just in case you didn't understand first time, I was providing evidence that Maccabi Tel Aviv's fans have a long history of racism, which has absolutely nothing to do with the current situation in Gaza. It was these fans who instigated the violence a couple of days ago, with their vile anti-Arab chants and attacks on Palestinian flags and at least one taxi driver.

Would just like to say I have not reported Oreo or anyone else’s post.

Have just returned to say neither have I reported anyone. Unless is trolling or nasty I don’t do this though I was and still am offended by such comments.
But am imagining someone did feel very upset by the comments and am not diminishing their feelings.
This is the whole problem, those who get rightfully upset by antisemitism refuse to see that their comments could upset other groups in the selfsame way. Muslims in many countries see their human rights and feelings amounting to very little right now, and to insist that Islamophobia is somehow justified because of terrorism committed by a few extreme groups is ridiculous and very offensive. The majority of Muslims have crimes against humanity committed against them, very few do this vice versa.
In any case a whole people cannot be persecuted and attacked because of others actions. Indeed the same should be said about those attacking Jewish people, they should not be attacked because of what is happening in Gaza.
But people make unfortunate connections in life and punish the innocent because if it.
In a nutshell Islamophobia IS as deeply damaging and injurious as antisemitism, but if people disagree with this perhaps they themselves have deeply held prejudices against Muslims.

No one has said Islamophobia is ever justified. A thread on
Islamophobia perhaps?

There is some definite evidence of some SM advance planning for the Wednesday evening attacks, but the police have not yet released a report on this because I presume they are looking into it properly before reporting including the time scales.

It will be something the authorities will want to be aware of, and its complicated because Maccabi fans were also circulating rumours

I've read such different reports on this from different outlets - with different political agendas - warnings sent to Amsterdam from Israel included - alleging different things - atm waiting for proper confirmation.

Today's "Explainer" report in the Guardian alludes to both whilst setting out the best timeline of events in detail including the nature of the attacks I've read so far and the clear response of the authorities

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans

(I'd be happy to use another source but this is accessible)

Anniebach

No one has said Islamophobia is ever justified. A thread on
Islamophobia perhaps?

Well comments were deleted and imho GNHQ don’t delete comments unless they breach guidelines, so if not Islamophobic then seeking to be an apologist for this.
Just ask yourself Annie if a commenter declared ‘antisemitism, whatever that is’, how would you feel?
Am sure you don’t want antisemitism diluted or made out to be a storm in a teacup.

I get the impression that the Dutch police are dragging their heels a bit in releasing their report, nearly a week on. Normally one side is quickly blamed for the attacks and it is made clear what sparked off the events. In Amsterdam, the details all seem very mixed up and unclear, according to whose version we read.

I visited the Museum of WWII Resistance in Amsterdam this year. It showed the life of people in the city during the Holocaust and highlighted acts of heroism towards Jewish people hounded by the Nazis. A young child would be interested in walking round the mock up street scenes. It was factual, but not overly moving. What did strike me, however, and was palpable, was the feeling that Dutch people STILL feel guilty because of the country's contribution to Jewish suffering in WW2. There's no getting away from the fact that they think they let Jewish people down.
Maybe this shame, and regret, kind of accounts for the rush in both Holland and abroad to pin the blame last week on antisemitism?

OK, sorry, growstuff maybe I associated your comment with someone else's who said,
So if you are still wondering what Islamophobia is perhaps just ask someone first before showing your ignorance, because you added your own family member post directly to it as clarification.

You've got me wondering now whether your son in law is a ManU or a ManCity supporter? Though nothing to do with this thread, obviously!

Quote escaped Tue 12-Nov-24 13:41:49
I get the impression that the Dutch police are dragging their heels a bit in releasing their report, nearly a week on. Normally one side is quickly blamed for the attacks and it is made clear what sparked off the events. In Amsterdam, the details all seem very mixed up and unclear, according to whose version we read.

I visited the Museum of WWII Resistance in Amsterdam this year. It showed the life of people in the city during the Holocaust and highlighted acts of heroism towards Jewish people hounded by the Nazis. A young child would be interested in walking round the mock up street scenes. It was factual, but not overly moving. What did strike me, however, and was palpable, was the feeling that Dutch people STILL feel guilty because of the country's contribution to Jewish suffering in WW2. There's no getting away from the fact that they think they let Jewish people down.
Maybe this shame, and regret, kind of accounts for the rush in both Holland and abroad to pin the blame last week on antisemitism?

Thank you escaped much to think about

I get the impression that the Dutch police are dragging their heels a bit in releasing their report, nearly a week on. Normally one side is quickly blamed for the attacks and it is made clear what sparked off the events. In Amsterdam, the details all seem very mixed up and unclear, according to whose version we read

The timelines are set out clearly in the Guardian article I posted above, but interpreting them and checking out Social media and different witness accounts - including btw local Jewish organisations who came out to help get footie supporters to the airport

cannot be done quickly, I doubt blame is simple in this case.

Actually I think "blame" probably lies in several different directions - perhaps what matters most is how to prevent or contain future occurrences and this matters a great deal as it's possible it could happen again.
There has been rise in both Anti-semitism and Islamophobia.

Can Islamophobia be discussed on a separate thread please ?

silverlining48

Would just like to say I have not reported Oreo or anyone else’s post.

Well someone did. Though why it was deleted I don't know.

I'd just like to say that my post and, I believe another one, were deleted because they quoted a deleted post.

Post references deleted post

It's interesting to note that both AFV Ajax and UEFA put out statements referring only to events AFTER the match.
^AFTER a sporting football match with a good atmosphere in our stadium – for which we thank all parties involved for the good cooperation – we were horrified to learn what happened in the centre of Amsterdam last night. We strongly condemn this violence."
So are they purposely ignoring the events on the streets and on the metro prior to the match? Do they see the build up to the attacks it as unimportant, or are they just fed up with two groups of thugs with their own political agenda?

AFC AJAX