Amsterdam attacks

I just think they felt the need to say they had no part in it (am not saying they did) and saying "look elsewhere?".

Anniebach

No one has said Islamophobia is ever justified. A thread on
Islamophobia perhaps?

Nobody has said it, including me!
Babs3 you got hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely from both of my comments and I can’t understand why as there was nothing said about ordinary people who happen to be Muslim in them.It was about extremist Islamist groups being linked to a rise in Islamaphobia in various countries.
Since its a self moderating site then obvs one or more posters did complain.
Water under the bridge.
It’s on record growstuff since truth is key, that people in Amsterdam did coordinate attacks and arrange it by SM using taxi drivers and men on scooters to ‘corral’ small groups of Israeli fans and beat them up.
I acknowledge that the fans shouldn’t have pulled down any flags but guess it was like a red rag to a bull.

Oreo

Anniebach

No one has said Islamophobia is ever justified. A thread on
Islamophobia perhaps?

Nobody has said it, including me!
Babs3 you got hold of the wrong end of the stick entirely from both of my comments and I can’t understand why as there was nothing said about ordinary people who happen to be Muslim in them.It was about extremist Islamist groups being linked to a rise in Islamaphobia in various countries.
Since its a self moderating site then obvs one or more posters did complain.
Water under the bridge.
It’s on record growstuff since truth is key, that people in Amsterdam did coordinate attacks and arrange it by SM using taxi drivers and men on scooters to ‘corral’ small groups of Israeli fans and beat them up.
I acknowledge that the fans shouldn’t have pulled down any flags but guess it was like a red rag to a bull.

It's also on record Oreo that the Maccabi fans were shouting anti-Arab chants as soon as they arrived in Amsterdam Airport. They pulled down a flag, attacked a Moroccan taxi driver and tooled themselves up before any attacks on them were reported. Have there been any reports of attacks on ordinary Jewish inhabitants of Amsterdam? Maybe there were and I've missed them, but without those, it wasn't a pogrom, as Netanyahu claimed.

Truth is indeed the key. It wasn't one-sided, which is how the majority of the UK media and many on GN have presented it.

escaped

It's interesting to note that both AFV Ajax and UEFA put out statements referring only to events AFTER the match.
^AFTER a sporting football match with a good atmosphere in our stadium – for which we thank all parties involved for the good cooperation – we were horrified to learn what happened in the centre of Amsterdam last night. We strongly condemn this violence."
So are they purposely ignoring the events on the streets and on the metro prior to the match? Do they see the build up to the attacks it as unimportant, or are they just fed up with two groups of thugs with their own political agenda?

I'm not a mind reader, so I don't know anything about their motivation. Maybe they hadn't been given the whole picture.

Wyllow3

Actually I think "blame" probably lies in several different directions - perhaps what matters most is how to prevent or contain future occurrences and this matters a great deal as it's possible it could happen again.
There has been rise in both Anti-semitism and Islamophobia.

An attempt has been made.

The Europa League match between Turkish club Besiktas and Maccabi Tel-Aviv from Israel on Nov. 28 will be played in a neutral territory in Hungary.

The match was originally a home game for Istanbul-based Besiktas, but the Turkish government had earlier decided not to host it in Turkey. It will now be played at Nagyerdei Stadium in Debrecen, Hungary.

The match will be held behind closed doors due to a decision by the local Hungarian authorities.

Maccabi fans aren't being given an outlet and I suspect this won't be the last time they'll be shown they're not welcome.

Agreeing with Growstuff as to the whole narrative of events.

I'm reposting this article as it gives a timeline and exactly what happened over the 3 days. It gives details of both attacks on the football fans and the provocation initiated by them, also social media used by both parties.

There were both Anti Semitism and Anti Islam elements in this.

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/11/what-happened-amsterdam-israeli-football-fans

Football hooligan, however racist, can’t be used to minimise anti semitism.

Growstuff, yiu asked whether ‘ordinary’ Jewish people had been attacked in Amsterdam (my words, nit quoting yours). I haven’t checked news reports but see no reason why Amsterdam should be different than my area, North Manchester, where synagogues, cemeteries, schools have all seen huge increases in anti semitic attacks. A friend told me recently that many in the Jewish community have reverted to having a Go bag by the door in case living here becomes too dangerous. Some are considering moving to Israel, their homeland - despite not supporting its government.

Agree Iam at the beginnings of the year Maureen Lipman spoke of antisemitism, even the graveyard where she lived was guarded, children not wearing their school blazers to travel to
school, what must it be like now .

What can a parent say to a child who asks why ? Because you are a Jew !

The CIDI is an independent foundation registered at the Dutch Chamber of Commerce. Its mission is to ensure a peaceful existence for Jewish people. Apparently it recorded 379 attacks on Jewish people in Amsterdam in 2023.
This constitutes a 245% increase over 2022.
So like in Iam64's description of North Manchester, Jews in Amsterdam suffer antisemitic attacks 365 days a year.

Iam64

Football hooligan, however racist, can’t be used to minimise anti semitism.

Growstuff, yiu asked whether ‘ordinary’ Jewish people had been attacked in Amsterdam (my words, nit quoting yours). I haven’t checked news reports but see no reason why Amsterdam should be different than my area, North Manchester, where synagogues, cemeteries, schools have all seen huge increases in anti semitic attacks. A friend told me recently that many in the Jewish community have reverted to having a Go bag by the door in case living here becomes too dangerous. Some are considering moving to Israel, their homeland - despite not supporting its government.

I accept that. My question was related to the events of a couple of days ago. Were the usual Jewish inhabitants of Amsterdam physically attacked, pushed in canals, etc? Were there more threats than normal (ie to warrant the accusations that this was a pogrom)? Were any of your friends actually attacked?

I'm not minimising antisemitism. Why don't the Israeli authorities act against these thugs? In the past they have actually attacked non-Jewish Israeli citizens. It genuinely seems to me that their racism is being minimised. It should work both ways.

Incidentally, at least some of the attacks on cemeteries in Manchester have been carried by home-grown right wing thugs. We know that because there have been arrests.

I followed up the question raised in terms of "everyday"

Yes, Anti Semitism has peaked in Denmark since last year

www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/denmark-records-highest-number-of-antisemitic-incidents-since-wwii-part-of-a-grim-european-trend

There are also high levels of Islamophobia

www.trtworld.com/europe/study-dutch-muslims-spat-on-beaten-discriminated-in-islamophobic-crimes-54957

Reading the full reports, there was deliberate provocation that resulted in retaliation.

I’m personally sickened to the core by the genocide in Gaza and struggling not to give way to my own anti-Zionist feelings.

If you delve into it, there have been high levels of Antisemitism apparent in Holland recently.
When I was in Amsterdam earlier this year, we couldn't visit the new National Holocaust Museum because it wasn't opened until the March. Unlike the Resistance Museum, this one is dedicated solely to the Jews of Holland. It houses Jewish artefacts as part of the story and focuses on the persuction and murder of Jews in the Netherlands.
Anyway, more than 200 Dutch mosques audaciously petitioned King Willem-Alexander not to attend the opening. What business was it of theirs? What little respect does that show? At the opening, there were 100s of Pro-Palestinian protesters with banners and they pelted the dignitaries with raw eggs. That's total provocation on the streets of the city from one side only.

That’s truly shocking, escaped.
Anti semitism amongst Muslim communities seems to be an increasing problem and one widely demonstrated.

escaped Iam thank you for keeping truth here

Totally out of order, I agree.

Events in the Middle East have a long and devastating reach into Europe and the USA.

Iam64 from my understanding of the protests organised at the museum's opening, it was a Dutch Palestinian rights group who saw it as a slap in the face for them that their King should meet with Israel's President when their "home country" was being destroyed. I believe there were some anti-Zionist Jews there too.
I don't understand why antisemitism has to be demonstrated on such an important occasion. Palestinians wouldn't get my support this way, even though I am not dismissive of their plight in Gaza.
Here's a photo at the time in Amsterdam for authentication in case of disbelief.

That is absolutely shocking escaped and is evidence of the ongoing amount of antisemitism which is going on around the world today. I believe it has been growing since 07/10/23.

There are many in the Muslim community who abhor these sort of actions, and there are many in the Jewish community who don't support the current Israeli regime.

But they get blamed - or attacked - under tar with the same brush labels where we don't hear those voices.

escaped that is shocking, blatant unashamed anti semitism. And still there are those that either ignore or defend it.

Jewish children not wearing their school blazers because it marks them out as Jews. Is there an equivalent situation where Muslim girls refrain from wearing a hijab because it marks them out as Muslim? Neither should be accepted.

It's been growing because of the news from Israel and Gaza/Lebanon. Its not "just happened".

Rosie51

escaped that is shocking, blatant unashamed anti semitism. And still there are those that either ignore or defend it.

Jewish children not wearing their school blazers because it marks them out as Jews. Is there an equivalent situation where Muslim girls refrain from wearing a hijab because it marks them out as Muslim? Neither should be accepted.

Yes Rosie, the report I posted above from Denmark above documents attacks on Muslims because of dress/how people look, including the hijab, and incidents of being spat on and beaten.

To all - I wish there was more the authorities could do more pro-actively, hard to see what, it is devastating to find.

escaped

If you delve into it, there have been high levels of Antisemitism apparent in Holland recently.
When I was in Amsterdam earlier this year, we couldn't visit the new National Holocaust Museum because it wasn't opened until the March. Unlike the Resistance Museum, this one is dedicated solely to the Jews of Holland. It houses Jewish artefacts as part of the story and focuses on the persuction and murder of Jews in the Netherlands.
Anyway, more than 200 Dutch mosques audaciously petitioned King Willem-Alexander not to attend the opening. What business was it of theirs? What little respect does that show? At the opening, there were 100s of Pro-Palestinian protesters with banners and they pelted the dignitaries with raw eggs. That's total provocation on the streets of the city from one side only.

All I shall say it that it doesn’t surprise me and should have been policed better for the opening by the King.

And the cause of antisemitism ? the Jews , just as Jews caused polygamy's and the Holocaust and crucified Christ, who was a Jew