Amsterdam attacks

The current situation in the Middle East is causing increasing tensions right across Europe. It's a pity that politicians didn't consider the consequences of mass immigration from different cultures.

mum2three

The current situation in the Middle East is causing increasing tensions right across Europe. It's a pity that politicians didn't consider the consequences of mass immigration from different cultures.

Can you possibly clarify?

Anniebach

The king, the prime minister and the mayor of Amsterdam
say it is antisemitism

Definition of Zionism
‘Zionism is a political and religious movement that seeks to establish a Jewish state in Israel, the ancient homeland of the Jewish people’

Britannica - Zionism is a Jewish nationalist movement originating in Europe in the 19century with the goal of the creation and support of a national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews…. According to Judaism, Zion, on the the ancient hills of Jerusalem is the place where God dwells

I find the derogatory use of “Zionist” as a term of abuse, offensive and anti semitic.

Just home after dinner with our Jewish friends, they just shrugged their shoulders and said same old same old where are we to go?

In the lead-up to the game, some Israeli fans chanted racist slogans against Arabs and Palestinians, according to the Times of Israel, citing footage posted on social media.

“They began attacking houses of people in Amsterdam with Palestinian flags,” Amsterdam City Council member Jazie Veldhuyzen told Al Jazeera.

Prior to the match, there was a protest against the Israeli team in which more than 50 people were arrested, Dutch police said.

From Politico (also quoting The Times of Israel)

I find the derogatory use of ‘Zionist’ as a term of abuse, offensive and anti semitic.

So do I. So do many others. This thread is quite shocking. On the eve of Kristalnight too. How must the Jews of the world look on this?

The king of the Netherlands, the Prime Minister, Macron, and others have condemned this as antisemitism. Ten people were put into hospital. Jewish people were thrown into canals. Three people are still missing.

And all this in a European city. Protests and face coverings have now been banned in Amsterdam.

Iam Madalene so do i, this thread truly is shocking , how can anyone say Zionists are not Jews ?

There hasn’t been much on our news about this but it sounds dreadful. Amsterdam, of all places, with their history in the Second World War. The anti Semitism from some posters makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t think they even realise it which is even worse.

nanna8

There hasn’t been much on our news about this but it sounds dreadful. Amsterdam, of all places, with their history in the Second World War. The anti Semitism from some posters makes me sick to my stomach. I don’t think they even realise it which is even worse.

Dreadful isn't it?

Look at any thread about the situation in the Middle East and you find the same apologists and anti Semites. Hidden in plain sight.

MaizieD

Looking at the BBC coverage it looks to be provocation from both sides.

I suspect that it was more anti Zionist than anti semitic.

And football fans aren't known to be the ,most peaceable folk, on either side.

However, I've nothing further to say.

Pleased to hear that. A good case of victim blaming.

Anniebach: "how can anyone say Zionists are not Jews"

Zionists are not all Jewish, but they do support the Jewish right to a homeland. Not all Jews are Zionists, as not all Jews want a homeland.

Simple? It ought to be but tragically just makes the situation more complex.

I support my Jewish friends, but not the Israeli football thugs, who it seems, have been just as inflammatory as the Palestinian football fans.

Why is it always footie fans who act like ar#£holes?

Antisemitism is terrible so is Islamophobia, it has been said that antisemites hide in plain sight, well Islamophobes don’t even go to effort of hiding. As can be seen on threads about migrant crossings.

Hamas behaved diabolically and needed to be stopped.

The IDF and some of the Israeli government have gone beyond acceptable defence and need to stop.

I am neither criticising the Islamic or Jewish faith in my criticism, but I am criticising the behaviour of the Hamas group and Israeli state.

People need to learn to distinguish between the two.

Football culture has long been recognised as being extremely tribal that will, if not stopped, spill over into violence, using both politics and social reasons to attack the opposition. This phenomenon has been going on for certainly since the 1960s.

Do not muddle football culture with anti-semitism or Islamaphobia.

Do not muddle critics of the state or political groups with antisemitism or Islamaphobia.

Mature debate should be able to distinguish between them.

If some Israeli football visitors pulled down any Palestinian flags which were certainly hung there to provoke them, and some Israelis shouted back at insults then who can blame them.
Blame is squarely on the Dutch Palestinian supporters who clearly arranged the attacks in the days before and attacked mob handed with knives and other weapons and handed out beatings.Lessons learned from hamas it would seem.
Added to this the police had innocently not expected much trouble!

GrannyGravy13

Just home after dinner with our Jewish friends, they just shrugged their shoulders and said same old same old where are we to go?

Your Jewish friends have a point there.

I think the words, Never again, are problematic because the world is a very different place now from how it was immediately after the Holocaust. Times have changed, the world evolves, but Jewish people continue to face overwhelming hostility. They always will. Antisemitism appears to be a timeless and universal problem.

Don’t be naive anyone, this was not muddling football culture with antisemitism. Did Dutch Palestinian supporters go after other visiting football fans in this way? No they didn’t.
Excuses won’t wash.

Zionism is a political arm of a particular sect of the Jewish faith that has been active for over a century. It argues for a Jewish state claiming it of a right that goes back millennia.

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.

Zionism does have an extreme wing which is evident in the settlers behaviour we are witnessing.

Criticising Zionism is NOT anti-Semitic.

Do not muddle the two. Many Jews, whilst accepting the Israeli state, reject entirely the Zionist expansionism that is evident. It is not antisemitism to criticise this political aim.

You can fully support the right for a Jewish state.

You can fully support the right to a Palestinian state.

You can totally reject Zionist expansionism.

None of this is anti-faith of any sort.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Seems pogroms have returned to Europe. It’s terrifying, this escalation of violence isn’t it?

BBC reporting this as "clashes between rival fans...". 🤷‍♀️
We need a new phrase to call out antisemitism across our rotten craven illiberal Establishment. Here and in Europe.

I agree completely

Mature debate should be able to distinguish between them.
I understand your use of the imperative mood, but who is not having mature debate on here Whitewavemark2?

Babs03

Antisemitism is terrible so is Islamophobia, it has been said that antisemites hide in plain sight, well Islamophobes don’t even go to effort of hiding. As can be seen on threads about migrant crossings.

Nonsense, migrants aren’t always followers of Islam, they’re often from Christian countries and many other religions.A great number from Vietnam for instance.
What most people object to on the migrant threads are huge numbers of people arriving through illegal ways.

Whitewavemark2

Zionism is a political arm of a particular sect of the Jewish faith that has been active for over a century. It argues for a Jewish state claiming it of a right that goes back millennia.

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.

Zionism does have an extreme wing which is evident in the settlers behaviour we are witnessing.

Criticising Zionism is NOT anti-Semitic.

Do not muddle the two. Many Jews, whilst accepting the Israeli state, reject entirely the Zionist expansionism that is evident. It is not antisemitism to criticise this political aim.

You can fully support the right for a Jewish state.

You can fully support the right to a Palestinian state.

You can totally reject Zionist expansionism.

None of this is anti-faith of any sort.

This 👏👏👏👏👏

Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple.

The Dutch Palestinian supporters didn’t give a flying fig if the Israelis they were stabbing and kicking were Zionists or not, they were Jews and that was enough.

^Oreo Sat 09-Nov-24 09:45:22
Whitewavemark2 you seem to be tying yourself up in knots in an effort to get round the truth of the matter of what happened in Amsterdam.
It was hatred of Jews pure and simple^

But you don't know that do you? How do you know it wasn't hatred of Israel?

There is no need to go into the history with which we are all very familiar.
It's inevitable in the context to mention history, but a lot of the posts on this thread are crying out for a future without all this hostility, or at least a better recognition and understanding. Posters are saying what they object to and find intolerable, and then expressing their longing for future peace all round.
Lecturing doesn't help if it ignores how the Amsterdam attacks started, and it wasn't just the burning of a Palestinian flag by football fans.