Amsterdam attacks

Wyllow3

silverlining48

Not forgetting Islamophobia too presumably

We can't ignore the Wednesday night incidents tearing down the flag and attack on the taxi driver, nor the very provocative

"Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs" early evening

from massed Maccabi fans before the attacks in the city later Thursday night.

I read up on Ajax's history after your post, Escaped - it's certainly significant - thank you - it makes for example the Maccabi fans refusal to observe the one minutes silence for Spain all the more confusing.

Except to perhaps observe that current hostilities overrode these historic connections?

That the younger generation Maccabi fans were not aware? And makes all the events more sad than ever.

I'd certainly like to know about the backgrounds of the Wednesday night attackers, if any were angry footie supporters or all arrived for ant semitic rioting, who they were. Were these anti semitic rioters "pro-palestinian" or far right (yes Denmark has had a recent rise in that this year) or thugs looking for a fight at all costs?

I can guess at the backgrounds of Wed night Dutch attackers and escaped is right that Ajax like Spurs ( was my Dad’s team as we lived local) is known for being a Jewish club.
The refusal to observe the minute silence for Spain was a mistake IMO but it was to do with Spain’s policy to the Israeli government.
It’s always difficult to get direct evidence if suspects are hooded and masked as many of the Dutch probably were.If it turns out they weren’t then that’s down to inept police procedure.
During the protests and riots here even an older woman who hurled insults outside a hotel was jailed.

Thanks for info Wyllow. Am imagining some detained for setting off illegal fireworks would have been Israeli fans for footage shows them setting these off and making a ruckus when a minutes silence was held for Spanish people who died or lost everything in the terrible floods in Valencia.
Both sides need to be convicted and those who encouraged them online dealt with swiftly.

The only ones encouraging them online were antisemites.

There’s a lot of them about and always has been.

I was surprised at breakdown of the 62 charges, to be honest, few reflect the violence that occurred.

I'm not sure it's fair to say the police were inept, because to prove attacks there has to be webcam or CCTV evidence.

UK riot arrests were done on the basis of clearly identifiable suspects "in action" in specific locations:

but in Amsterdam everything was happening "on the run", in different city locations often according to the news on scooters.

I'm sure the police are under strict instructions to prosecute when they can.

There is very little in the newspapers this morning about it, but I'm sure that possible future incidents are going to be watched a lot more closely.

growstuff

Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are renowned for being racist against their own Arab, black and foreign players, long before the current war in Gaza.This is one example from 2014:

www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-football-fans-shout-f-arabs-palestinian-player-maccabi-tel-aviv-1459605

Disgusting victim blaming again.

Babs03

Many Muslims stay away from football matches due to far right groups targeting them. Muslims in general attract Islamophobia is increasing in most western countries, and often conflated with immigration issues.
Antisemitism is awful, but to assume Muslims get a cushy number with regard to anything really isn’t reading the room right now.

Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.
Why all the distraction for what this was, a deliberate hunting down of Jewish football supporters, even to running them over, planned and carried out out with vicious intent. Pulling down a flag does not justify this tribal behaviour. I'd have pulled it down too.

Read this thread earlier, wanted to vomit, still nauseous
Antisemitism and denial pouring from here

How can a newspaper article from 2014 relate to 2014?

How can relief be obtained by asking Israelis to stay away from
sporting events in this country and Europe? by banning Jews

Nothing justifies it.

It wasn't the just the flag, there was no reaction the morning after.

But their disrespective behaviour during the minute for the Spanish, against a team that is known to be pro-Jewish, and the mass chants after the match Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs was openly provocative.

Like I said, it doesn't excuse the levels of violence later that evening, but to go as visitors to another country and express what they did and how they did it was beyond merely foolish.

Wyllow3

Nothing justifies it.

It wasn't the just the flag, there was no reaction the morning after.

But their disrespective behaviour during the minute for the Spanish, against a team that is known to be pro-Jewish, and the mass chants after the match Olé, olé, let the IDF win, we will fuck the Arabs was openly provocative.

Like I said, it doesn't excuse the levels of violence later that evening, but to go as visitors to another country and express what they did and how they did it was beyond merely foolish.

There were chants before the match too. The timing on the published videos shows that.

Anniebach

Read this thread earlier, wanted to vomit, still nauseous
Antisemitism and denial pouring from here

How can a newspaper article from 2014 relate to 2014?

How can relief be obtained by asking Israelis to stay away from
sporting events in this country and Europe? by banning Jews

I don't understand what you mean. The 2014 article relates to 2014. The fans of this particular football team have a known reputation as racist (anti-Arab, anti-black) and their reputation goes back way beyond the Gaza conflict. They are the 'Millwall' of Israel. They have been abusive to their own non-Jewish players.

Freya5

Babs03

Many Muslims stay away from football matches due to far right groups targeting them. Muslims in general attract Islamophobia is increasing in most western countries, and often conflated with immigration issues.
Antisemitism is awful, but to assume Muslims get a cushy number with regard to anything really isn’t reading the room right now.

Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.
Why all the distraction for what this was, a deliberate hunting down of Jewish football supporters, even to running them over, planned and carried out out with vicious intent. Pulling down a flag does not justify this tribal behaviour. I'd have pulled it down too.

It wasn't just pulling down a flag, although I don't think it's justified to pull down any flags in a foreign country. A taxi driver was attacked and there was vile anti-Arab chanting - plus the refusal to acknowledge the minute's silence for the victims in Valencia.

The retaliation was disproportionate, but lets'be honest - the Israeli fans weren't innocent victims.

@Freya

‘Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.’

That statement right there is a fine example if Islamophobia - to actually say ‘whatever that is’ as if it is not worthy of consideration.
Thanks for making my point perfectly!
Muslims may not all be one race but they certainly are treated with dehumanising racial hatred.
To only see one form of horrible racism and refuse to even recognise the other is at the core of what is being discussed on this thread.
My OH isn’t Muslim but sone family members are, and these who have attacked or subjected him or his family to Islamophobia with attacks both verbal or physical are not imagined, they are very real.
So if you are still wondering what Islamophobia is perhaps just ask someone first before showing your ignorance.

Annie, unless I am mistaken, it is Netanyahu who advised his citizens to stay away from such events, (for the next week, according to Sky News) not the countries with footie matches coming up asking they don't come.

"The Israeli government has told its citizens not to attend cultural or sports events abroad over the next week following violence in Amsterdam"

For example the footie match coming up in France, this Thursday, where

"In Paris, police said that 4,000 police officers will be deployed for Thursday's football match between France and Israel.

President Emmanuel Macron will attend the game, a gesture aimed at sending "a message of fraternity and solidarity after the intolerable acts of antisemitism that followed the match in Amsterdam", his office said."

Freya5

Wyllow3

It may have taken place within the context of footie conflict, but it was intensely political from both sides of this terrible conflict.

Yes I am a "try to see it from both sides" and both anti semitism and anti Arab/Islam events were carried out.

Levels of planning when it's called "Jew Hunt" are clearly anti semitic and I expect arrests will follow as did the riots in the UK for SM plans - I hope so. but who is carrying the costs in terms of innocents killed in Palestine and now Lebanon.

Nevertheless, as long as the current Israeli regime continues some of its policies, these protests and worse won't stop.

Disband Hamas. Problem solved.

If only ...

Babs03

@Freya

‘Not talking about Islamaphobia, whatever that is. We are talking about antisemitism, a hatred of a race,not a religion.’

That statement right there is a fine example if Islamophobia - to actually say ‘whatever that is’ as if it is not worthy of consideration.
Thanks for making my point perfectly!
Muslims may not all be one race but they certainly are treated with dehumanising racial hatred.
To only see one form of horrible racism and refuse to even recognise the other is at the core of what is being discussed on this thread.
My OH isn’t Muslim but sone family members are, and these who have attacked or subjected him or his family to Islamophobia with attacks both verbal or physical are not imagined, they are very real.
So if you are still wondering what Islamophobia is perhaps just ask someone first before showing your ignorance.

I second that - and I do have a close family member who comes from a Muslim family.

Just to say Annie this all makes me feel sick too, because it feels a dreadful, irresolvable problem, with so much suffering. Every day looking at the suffering within that region.

I feel that some of what we are experiencing relates to decisions by a specific regime in Israel and Jewish people are being blamed en masse because of that.

@Annie your feelings are my feelings but for very different reasons, your feelings of being attacked personally by antisemitism has the support and sympathy of every western leader/government and most of their populations, my feelings of being attacked personally count for absolutely nothing.

And with that will bid you all a good day.
Is like talking into the wind for both sides.

Wyllow history shows Jews have always been subjected to hatred for no reason, the Jewish faith isn’t pressed on communities of individuals

I know they have Annie, but feel I can't support the current regime in all their decisions.
But thats hardly news, since there are disagreements within Israel itself. But many people don't see that from the outside.

When you have a group of young Israelis chanting anti Arab slogans (not anti Hamas, just anti Arab as such), couldn't Netanyahu suggest this isn't a great way forward as well as rightfully condemning the attacks.

Wyllow given the Pogroms, the Holocaust, all the history they have a homeland,

Anniebach

Wyllow given the Pogroms, the Holocaust, all the history they have a homeland,

Palestinians had a homeland too.

Wyllow3

Just to say Annie this all makes me feel sick too, because it feels a dreadful, irresolvable problem, with so much suffering. Every day looking at the suffering within that region.

I feel that some of what we are experiencing relates to decisions by a specific regime in Israel and Jewish people are being blamed en masse because of that.

The Jewish people are always blamed en masse it crops up with depressing regularity.
Israel doesn’t need to do anything at all and still Jews will be attacked verbally and physically.
Reading threads on this forum adds to the depression.

Wyllow3

I know they have Annie, but feel I can't support the current regime in all their decisions.
But thats hardly news, since there are disagreements within Israel itself. But many people don't see that from the outside.

When you have a group of young Israelis chanting anti Arab slogans (not anti Hamas, just anti Arab as such), couldn't Netanyahu suggest this isn't a great way forward as well as rightfully condemning the attacks.

Israel is reeling from the murders of Oct 7th and the daily missiles ever since.Yes, they are retaliating and the feeling against Arabs is strong, what do you expect? In this case in Holland it was the pro Palestinians and supporters of terrorist groups that organised attacks on SM before the fans ever arrived in the country.This is a proven fact.