Should Justin Welby resign?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

I respect the bravery, integrity and independence of mind of the Bishop of Newcastle, Helen-Ann Hartley, for speaking on behalf of other bishops and clergy.

That surely took some guts in a hierarchical organisation.

Hierarchy and sexist too!

ronib

Starmer left in November 2013. The report was released in February 2013.

The only suggestion of any involvement I can find is from you ronib, nothing in the media, and as I understand it the case did not go to the CPS until 2017, so can you post your evidence that he would even have been aware that Justin Welby had received a report in 2013 please?
In the meantime here is the fact check on Starmer’s involvement with the Savile case.
www.reuters.com/article/fact-check/no-evidence-uks-keir-starmer-was-directly-involved-in-failing-to-prosecute-jimm-idUSL1N2RP200/

He should not resign he should be sacked!!!!! This sort of behaviour is unforgivable, I don't want to hear he regrets not going to the police. He is a man of God for goodness sake, what is the church coming to! It beggers belief.

Well done Bishop Helen Ann Hartley, I applaud your bravery. Justin Welby should not be given the opportunity to resign he should be drummed out of the church immediately.

Casdon I am told by a friend that Welby did nothing with the report in 2013. I am surprised that an archbishop would be deliberately misleading about this matter. The way I read this was that the archbishop handed over the report to the police. When is the question? 4 years later? Hardly seems credible in the circumstances.

Great news! He has resigned.

Good.

Resigning to safeguard his pension?Will he get a golden handshake?

Probably paddyanne.

Why would the DPP be involved in any case which has not been properly followed up by the relevant police force? Is there any evidence that the police brought criminal prosecutions against Smythe? If they didn't how on earth would the DPP become involved?
The DPP, through the CPS, is responsible for the conduct of all criminal prosecutions instituted by the police and he may intervene in any criminal proceedings when it appears to him to be appropriate.

Apparently he has resigned. Perhaps the Bishop of London could takeover.

I've just heard that he has resigned and quite right too. He is a disgrace. As someone else said, it does make you wonder what else has been covered up!

ronib

Casdon I am told by a friend that Welby did nothing with the report in 2013. I am surprised that an archbishop would be deliberately misleading about this matter. The way I read this was that the archbishop handed over the report to the police. When is the question? 4 years later? Hardly seems credible in the circumstances.

From Sky News:

‘The independent Makin Review concluded authorities may have been able to bring him to justice - had Mr Welby reported the abuse after he became archbishop in 2013.

Mr Welby was a dormitory officer at one of Mr Smyth's camps and the pair exchanged Christmas cards for several years.

In a statement, Mr Welby said he was "deeply sorry that this abuse happened" and "sorry that concealment by many people who were fully aware of the abuse over many years meant that John Smyth was able to abuse overseas and died before he ever faced justice".

He added: "I had no idea or suspicion of this abuse before 2013. Nevertheless, the review is clear that I personally failed to ensure that after disclosure in 2013 the awful tragedy was energetically investigated."

I take that to mean that he did not personally report it to the police, or follow it up subsequently if somebody else had done so - he admitted his culpability to the review panel.

ronib

Mollygo so exactly why was Starmer not told about this case? You assume that Starmer wasn’t involved but you have blind belief stepping in here. It’s totally incredible that the head of the CPS had been kept in the dark about this.

I don’t assume anything. The assumption is all yours.
Is there evidence that it was reported to the CPS?

If yes, then he should have heard about it.
Quote
The CPS is responsible for prosecuting criminal cases investigated by the police and other investigative authorities, in England and Wales
When was the matter reported to the police? Some of the outcry about the Archbishop of Canterbury is that he did not report what he had learnt to the police in 2013.
If the matter was under investigation by the police, then the CPS could have been called in to prosecute Smyth.
When did the police start the investigation?
When What is the decision to prosecute Smyth taken?

The police didn't start investigating until after the documentary (C4 l think) in 2017.

I have read the whole report.
Ok so JW has now taken responsibility, but long before 2013 a number of others knew all about Smyth and deliberately covered it up. A victim came forward in 2013 and the relevant Bishop was informed and reported it to Hampshire police, who failed to progress with the case. The Archbishop has no jurisdiction over another bishop’s Diocese, and he was wrongly informed that the police were dealing with the case and did not personally take it further until it came out on tv in 2017.

JW is right to accept responsibility now, but there are many others, some now dead, who should have acted responsibly long ago. The whole set up of safeguarding has failed( though back in the 70ies and 80ies safeguarding was hardly recognised.)

Good on you for reading the report.
I may get to it at some stage.

I think I have some questions.

I am surprised that the Archbishop has no jurisdiction over the diocese of another bishop.
That is not how it works[I dont think] in the Christian denomination I am in.

I struggle when something has been handed to the Police.
I think that happened in the case of Cannon Hindley[I think I have spelt the name right].
I cant then get my head around what a Head of a Church is supposed to do, if Police do not take up the case.
Can they really sack someone, if the Police dont think they have enough to act upon??

3rd question or point.
Who are the others? Other Bishops?
And again, I suppose it comes around to, what happens if Police dont act. And an Archbishop does not act.

All questions open to anyone really.

JW is right to accept responsibility now, but there are many others, some now dead, who should have acted responsibly long ago. The whole set up of safeguarding has failed( though back in the 70ies and 80ies safeguarding was hardly recognised.)

This is correct. It did happen in the 70s and 80s. It wasn't right, but it was accepted at the time. It was hushed up, even by school staff who must have known what had happened.
How come decade after decade later it was still going on when safeguarding and welfare should have been of paramount importance?

I'll repeat the timeline re the CPS

Timeline:

The case was referred to the police in 2013 by the C of E

*But not followed up sufficiently by Hampshire police who only took it up 2017, after the Channel 4 investigation.

They then worked with the CPS who cleared the case for prosecution/extradition in 2018*

2018 Smythe dies.

virtueonline.org/john-smyth-dies-just-cps-gives-police-go-ahead-his-extradition-and-prosecution

virtueonline.org/john-smyth-dies-just-cps-gives-police-go-ahead-his-extradition-and-prosecution

I thought that he should resign and he has now .
What appallingly poor judgement on his part .
I'm wondering who will replace him .
I'm wondering if it will be Dr Guli Francis - Dehqani .

escaped

^JW is right to accept responsibility now, but there are many others, some now dead, who should have acted responsibly long ago. The whole set up of safeguarding has failed( though back in the 70ies and 80ies safeguarding was hardly recognised^.)

This is correct. It did happen in the 70s and 80s. It wasn't right, but it was accepted at the time. It was hushed up, even by school staff who must have known what had happened.
How come decade after decade later it was still going on when safeguarding and welfare should have been of paramount importance?

It wasn't accepted in the police force I worked in in the 70s and 80s. I couldn't even guess at the number of court files I worked on in those years.

* sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant in schools like Winchester College.

ronib as ever, is desperate to blame Starmer for the lack on prosecution, as others have said it hadn’t been referred to the cps when Starmer worked there.
Your reference to Saville, ronib, is pathetic.

The problem here includes the age old issue. Man abuses chikdren. Children complain, adults let them down

Smyth was a sadistic pervert. What a shame he avoided justice by dying.