The Farmers Fight

As for taxing the very rich, we've also had threads on this where GN's have insisted we cant because "they'll leave the country" or of course use any tax benefits their accountants advise.

I don't think its for lack of wanting to or trying!

“So what did 14 years of Conservative governments "do' to the farmers to leave them in the situation you describe? Which policies

We've been looking for 25 pages at market forces of different kinds that have led to the current situation and the Labour Party have not added any legislation whatsoever as the kind you mention.“

It’s the imposition of regulations that has made it much more difficult to make any decent living from food production, added to that the price pressure from supermarkets makes it worse.

IHT changes now bring the prospect of big tax bills that the business will not be able to meet, it’s not surprising that farmers are not happy.

Yes, I recognise that IT will have an effect, although prognostications vary widely,

but David, any other issues that have grown up in the last 14 years don't relate to the current government at all. All your stuff about "greenwashing", what exactly over the last 14 years have the government done in this way, and why attribute it to Labour?

ronib

Not just anti farmer, but anti elderly and anti public schools David49. Wonder who will be next?
Labour government policies are despatched at speed with no cost benefit or impact analyses- theoretical socialism at its best.

There is nothing in the slightest bit socialist about this government, ronib. Stop misusing the English language..

Why don’t you think this government is socialist Maizie?

Definition of socialism petal

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole

Ok, I’ve seen that before, but to me, that looks more like communism than socialism. But I was wondering why Maizie thinks this government is not socialist.

Obviously there are a whole range of people who support moves towards a better distribution of wealth, a better welfare system, NHS, care, education, workers rights, and these are "socialist" in nature, but the Labour Party is doing this in the context of a capitalist economy.
There are proposals - like re-nationalising the railways, maybe water too, into public ownership but these have in the past been accepted as best options of running the society we have.

Communist? MaizieD

ronib

Communist? MaizieD

🤔 beats me.

Socialists would care about children living in poverty and would have immediately removed the two child cap on benefits.
This Starmer Government does not.
Socialists would not let the water companies get away with such bad practise and would bring water back to being a public service instead of a cash machine for shareholders and executives.

There's currently a lot going on in the "nationalise water" debate. A lot of us in the L party (and for all I know, in other parties as well, especially if you live in Thames Water?)

.....Agree with re-nationlisation but the costs of doing that in the short term are a major problem.

Huge disagreements about "how much", as well.

Wyllow3

Yes, I recognise that IT will have an effect, although prognostications vary widely,

but David, any other issues that have grown up in the last 14 years don't relate to the current government at all. All your stuff about "greenwashing", what exactly over the last 14 years have the government done in this way, and why attribute it to Labour?

Greenwashing has been going on since Thatcher, yes it saves our emissions only to be replaced by even worse elsewhere. You surely realize that the solar panels we are buying today are being manufactured in China using electricity generated with coal from Australia.

That is exactly why Global emissions are still increasing, the present government thinks importing food helps emissions it doesn’t.

Increasing food from abroad is surely market driven, consumer choice. .....cheap supermarket food, and all that.

I agree with you about solar panels should be more home grown of course

Some imported food is cheaper because labour is cheaper there or not available in the UK, cost of production is only likely to be less if welfare or environmental regulations are lower. Having said that beef in the US produced in feedlots using GM food and hormones is more expensive than beef here as is most other food in the US

Consumer choice is indeed responsible for much of the emissions choosing cheap disposable throwaway stuff, travelling by choice not need. If we are to reduce emissions we really have to get serious about our choices.

Its just that I haven't seen any evidence David that the last or indeed this government has argued that its good to import food as its "greener" and that they are "greenwashing" in this way.

petal & ronib have you looked at the definition of communism???

It’s called lived experience LizzyDrip

LizzieDrip

petal & ronib have you looked at the definition of communism???

The definition is quite different from the realities which we have seen over the last century.

I’m not sure what you mean Allira, would you not define North Korea, for example, as a communist country?

Casdon

I’m not sure what you mean Allira, would you not define North Korea, for example, as a communist country?

🤔

I would not hold that up as an example of an ideal state.

How many millions have been oppressed and died in the name of Communism?

Ilovecheese

Socialists would care about children living in poverty and would have immediately removed the two child cap on benefits.
This Starmer Government does not.
Socialists would not let the water companies get away with such bad practise and would bring water back to being a public service instead of a cash machine for shareholders and executives.

They’re going to provide free breakfasts for primary school children. I’m pretty sure that, when they’ve sorted out the economic mess left by the last government they will remove the two child cap but, at this moment in time the important thing is to get to grips with the economy. Labour neither applied the two child cap or caused the financial disaster that was a result of the Truss premiership so why are they getting the blame for it?

Allira

Casdon

I’m not sure what you mean Allira, would you not define North Korea, for example, as a communist country?

🤔

I would not hold that up as an example of an ideal state.

How many millions have been oppressed and died in the name of Communism?

That wasn’t really the question though, it’s an example of the model rather than the application?