Putin lowers the nuclear threshold, as longrange missiles start to hit further inland

Oreo

Putin is threatening to use battlefield type nuclear missiles not nuclear bombs that decimate a country.

In the early nuclear age, the basic principle was MAD- mutual assured destruction.

The newish nuclear 'battlefield' types are therefore so so much more dangerous- as there is this really dangerous concept that they could be used tactically, without MAD. Do you really believe that if any of the madmen out there start using them, it would not lead to retaliation and escalation, and to larger bombs?

Didn't Trump say he would help Ukraine when he became President? I thought Biden just gave permission for the missiles to be used because Trump was going to anyway.
Mean while back in England our newly elected has or is going to get rid of some of our weapons, ships or whatever scaling back our defence because the government say they can't afford it What can't afford to keep the British Isle safe?. Leaving us where exactly? He's also given Zelensky permission to use our missiles to fire into Russian! Th next thing we'll see him patting Putin on the back trying to make amends for doing that. I hope I'm joking :-(

Fleurpepper

'You don’t turn the other cheek with bullies. You smack them as hard ( or harder) than they smack you.'

and how does that work, in the nuclear missiles in the hand a multiple madmen in the world???

I prefer to believe the experts at Chatham House rather than armchair pundits on GN.

www.chathamhouse.org/2022/07/myths-and-misconceptions-around-russian-military-intent/myth-6-russias-nuclear-threats-are

I was concerned that our defences are being lowered at a very dangerous time, scrapping, choppers, drones, ships etc before replacements are ready. These will take years probably to build. Surely it’s better to have old equipment than no equipment at all. I saw Starmer is allowing British missiles to be fired into Russia, just days after stupid Joe made his mad decision. Do we always have to follow the USA?

petra, this is not 'just' about Russia. But about smaller, so called 'battlefield' types of nuclear missiles threatening the very original concept of MAD- and escalation.

petra I’m with you on this and who to listen to.Certainly not forum members doom mongering.

M0nica

Putin has been sabre rattling since the war started, when he found occupying Ukraine was not a walk over. I do not think Biden had any choice but to let Ukraine use its missiles over Russia.

Trump is prepared to sell Ukraine down the river in his pursuit of an isolationist USA. Ukraine needs all the bargaining chips it can get ahead of that - and doing serious damamge to Russia and occupying Russian territory is an important part of that strategy. There are also a buffer of states on Ukraine's borders: Moldova, Georgia, even Poland, who fear that given free rein Putin will want to add them to his empire. They look to the free world, which includes NATO, as a military organisation, and the EU, as a political organisation as their protection and while, I agree, that NATO needs to be less reliant on the Americans, than it is, but at the moment those border states need reassurance. It is not coincidence that after Putin invaded Ukraine, that a group of states previously resolutely neutral in Europe: Finland and Sweden among them, promptly applied to join NATO.

Very well put, MOnica

I would be very surprised if Russia uses nuclear weapons at this stage, they can establish a defensive line and it will be very difficult and costly to break.

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

Willjac123

M0nica

Putin has been sabre rattling since the war started, when he found occupying Ukraine was not a walk over. I do not think Biden had any choice but to let Ukraine use its missiles over Russia.

Trump is prepared to sell Ukraine down the river in his pursuit of an isolationist USA. Ukraine needs all the bargaining chips it can get ahead of that - and doing serious damamge to Russia and occupying Russian territory is an important part of that strategy. There are also a buffer of states on Ukraine's borders: Moldova, Georgia, even Poland, who fear that given free rein Putin will want to add them to his empire. They look to the free world, which includes NATO, as a military organisation, and the EU, as a political organisation as their protection and while, I agree, that NATO needs to be less reliant on the Americans, than it is, but at the moment those border states need reassurance. It is not coincidence that after Putin invaded Ukraine, that a group of states previously resolutely neutral in Europe: Finland and Sweden among them, promptly applied to join NATO.

Very well put, MOnica

Absolutely agree! All of NATO agreed, we all put our energies into Ukraine, no party politics, we took people into our homes, Biden is continuing this policy.

jd79

Didn't Trump say he would help Ukraine when he became President? I thought Biden just gave permission for the missiles to be used because Trump was going to anyway.
Mean while back in England our newly elected has or is going to get rid of some of our weapons, ships or whatever scaling back our defence because the government say they can't afford it What can't afford to keep the British Isle safe?. Leaving us where exactly? He's also given Zelensky permission to use our missiles to fire into Russian! Th next thing we'll see him patting Putin on the back trying to make amends for doing that. I hope I'm joking :-(

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is set to receive a £2.9 billion increase in its budget, announced by Chancellor Rachel Reeves in her first budget speech

ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-to-boost-defence-budget-by-2-9bn/

Tactical decisions about what to spend our defence budget on in a changing world of different defence challenges will have been made by defence experts and it may not be keeping 50 year old ships, weapons!

The “threat” from Russia was greatly overstated, the performance during the Ukraine campaign proves how badly equipped and led they were, decades behind in technology.

There is no chance any conformation directly with NATO is going to be remotely successful for Russia, although I can understand why Russia is paranoid about the expansion of NATO.

It will be interesting which way Trump decides to go

Oldbat1

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

on speed. What nonsense.

If only Europe had given Ukraine even more support at the beginning of the conflict I think Ukraine would have succeeded. We are giving this extra help and equipment too late imo.

Putin doesn’t care how many of his troops are killed.

What a disaster for all concerned.

NanKate

If only Europe had given Ukraine even more support at the beginning of the conflict I think Ukraine would have succeeded. We are giving this extra help and equipment too late imo.

Putin doesn’t care how many of his troops are killed.

What a disaster for all concerned.

I think that is wishful thinking. To have responded as we have now would have been a gross over reaction to Putins invasion. and could have tempted him to use nuclear weapons early on. And what is your definition of 'success' for Ukraine? Driving the Russians out of the country? They would just regroup and reinvade.

Every commander, reliant on others for his supplies always says too little too late. But we can see in Gaza what happens when you over react to quickly. You soon get pulled into a war, based on over reacting at every level - and we can see what has happened, and is happening in the middle east.

This restrained build up in power and force, has made it difficult for Russia to gain any moral authority in this war, or enabled it to pose as anything but the aggressor.

The next step is seeing what happens when Trump comes into power.

Biden really wants to go out with a bang. Literally.

Fleurpepper

Oldbat1

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

on speed. What nonsense.

It is rubbish, it may even be an advantage to Trump, escalating now might just convince Putin how weak he really is and make it easier to get a deal to end the war.

I think it was a hasty move at his stage. Biden will be out by January and Trump in. De escalation is the key, surely? Our PM has just endorsed the arrest of the Israel PM. Will this not encourage more aggression in our country between pro Palestinians and anti? But then I am a conservative. Not a lefty always looking to cause trouble and strife?

The British government likes to be aggressive, especially if it is under threat. Nothing like a bit of warmongering to rally the troops and destroy the opposition. Thinking of Thatcher but same could apply to this bozo.

I believe that Putin will strike the UK as he said. The Storm shadow is manufactured in Stevenage, Hertfordshire. I think Putin takes a very literal view and I don’t see him backing down now. Huge mistakes all round.

ronib

I believe that Putin will strike the UK as he said. The Storm shadow is manufactured in Stevenage, Hertfordshire. I think Putin takes a very literal view and I don’t see him backing down now. Huge mistakes all round.

The first strikes outside Ukraine be will be against the supply bases mostly in Poland, if he does attack UK it will be against the North Sea gas and oil infrastructure that will really hurt the UK and be a really easy target to a Russian submarine.

Putin will not attack a NATO country. The results will be too disastrous for Russia.

Monica so that is our only practical means of defence against Putin? We don’t have any physical barriers in place so I hope you are right. I was wondering about evacuating Hertfordshire?

Oldbat1

love0c

Yes this is my opinion - Biden/Harris wish to cause as much trouble and mess before they go! Typical equivalent of Labour in this country too. Labour realise it is doubtful they will last their full term. Hence, they wish to cause as much trouble and mess as possible.

Rubbish!

Absolute rubbish. It says a good deal about the posters approach to conflicts and difficulties than those being criticised

Putin sabre rattling.

De-escalating as in letting Russia take Ukraine?