Bring it on Elon!

Dinahmo I am a fan of the French health system, it seems to be very efficient, much better to adopt that system than USA.

(Also my experience of the Spanish and Austrian doctors and clinics, quick to access, clean and reliable)

Time to recognise that the UK is not a first rate power in the world, has much less influence on the USA than some believe and that any UK PM has to navigate a passage between the US with NATO in mind and the EU which despite turbulence is an important trading partner with scope to exercise influence alongside France and Germany.

Yes Galaxy, I should have said Alex Jones rather than Joe Rogan. But Rogan has changed since his early days on his podcast and has recently dropped from his #1 on Spotify. The reasons for that are varied and has nothing to do with the purpose of this thread on Elon Musk. So I won't go further on that and derail.

My point was, young people are getting news from non traditional sources and what they are being fed looks a whole lot different.

Actually love0c I don't see any comparison between the elected Prime Minister of my nation and a man who has not been chosen by anyone, but is keen to interfere with the legislature of his own country, and, now, with ours.

I saw Farage in an interview some time ago (think it might have been a Newsnight, but not sure) where he said the UK should have an ‘insurance based health system similar to that in America’.

I very much doubt that Farage would ever call for a French style system - or any European system for that matter!

Reform election pledge. June 2024.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqll1edxgw4o

LizzieDrip

I saw Farage in an interview some time ago (think it might have been a Newsnight, but not sure) where he said the UK should have an ‘insurance based health system similar to that in America’.

I very much doubt that Farage would ever call for a French style system - or any European system for that matter!

This is your bias of him though, why would he not like the idea of the French health system?

I said his manifesto said he wanted the French type system as linked above.

Who would have said Starmer would get rid of the winter fuel allowance l.

LizzieDrip

I saw Farage in an interview some time ago (think it might have been a Newsnight, but not sure) where he said the UK should have an ‘insurance based health system similar to that in America’.

I very much doubt that Farage would ever call for a French style system - or any European system for that matter!

... not that I agree with him, but I think Farage's animosity was towards the EU institution rather than Europe itself, or any particular nation within it?

As it appears to be with some Brexit voters who still enjoy travelling and visiting mainland Europe.

I vaguely remember there was a catchphrase doing the rounds on social media during the referendum - "Love Europe, Hate The EU".

... it would be odd for anyone, even ardent Brexiteers, to hold the whole of mainland Europe in contempt!

But I do worry that Farage appears to be wedded to American Capitalism which, IMO, is quite brutal and that, should he gain sufficient support with Reform (aided by Mr Musk), he could take us down that route, and we end up with the American model of healthcare and social care.

Who knows? I don't study him sufficiently, and Reform's manifesto has not been fleshed-out enough, for me to make any valid observation. Could we ultimately end up as the 51st State of America - so to speak? I just don't know why Musk is so involved with UK politics.

*But I do worry that Farage appears to be wedded to American Capitalism which, IMO, is quite brutal and that, should he gain sufficient support with Reform (aided by Mr Musk), he could take us down that route, and we end up with the American model of healthcare and social care.

Who knows? I don't study him sufficiently, and Reform's manifesto has not been fleshed-out enough, for me to make any valid observation. Could we ultimately end up as the 51st State of America - so to speak? I just don't know why Musk is so involved with UK politics*

Absolutely.

Musk's basic far right ideology is shared by Reform, and for several months (Southport and the riots being a prime example) Musk and Farage have worked together.

finally, Musk offers enough to try and seriously try to change the path of UK politics by throwing unheard of amounts of money Reforms way and with Farage's obsession with Trump as I've said well upthread, turn the Uk back into the tail that USA the dog wags.

Why would Musk bother? I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader. Most seem to agree with him and it isn’t improving at this stage. I think that they really need to dump Starmer and get someone else in charge. There must be someone, surely ? They have a huge majority. I have no idea who would be capable, as a lovely person pointed out, I don’t see the every day stuff and see who is who there but some of you who follow politics will have an idea. Just needs to be done before people totally desert the Labour Party.

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

nanna8

Why would Musk bother? I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader. Most seem to agree with him and it isn’t improving at this stage. I think that they really need to dump Starmer and get someone else in charge. There must be someone, surely ? They have a huge majority. I have no idea who would be capable, as a lovely person pointed out, I don’t see the every day stuff and see who is who there but some of you who follow politics will have an idea. Just needs to be done before people totally desert the Labour Party.

Musk would be attacking whoever it was. it's not the individual, its the politics of the centrist left he doesn't like. He's bothering because he wants the UK to follow USA politics and foreign policies, be the tail that the US dog wags: not pursue links with Europe: he wants to buy, own, control.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation in the Labour Party, but thats another much longer discussion outside of Musk and Farage.

Well Trump seems to think he can make Canada the 51st US state, and Elon thinks that is a good idea. Maybe they want to UK too?

Quite honestly, I hope you all lean towards Europe because we may need you all to save us in the US from tyranny soon.

(This is a true fact that I present as a joke
Honestly, right now we have to laugh so as not to cry at what is coming)

Hey, wouldn’t that be a turn up for the books ? At first I just thought that was a silly suggestion but on reflection I think you’ve got something there !

nanna8

Why would Musk bother? I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader. Most seem to agree with him and it isn’t improving at this stage. I think that they really need to dump Starmer and get someone else in charge. There must be someone, surely ? They have a huge majority. I have no idea who would be capable, as a lovely person pointed out, I don’t see the every day stuff and see who is who there but some of you who follow politics will have an idea. Just needs to be done before people totally desert the Labour Party.

I think he sees an opportunity there because the current government has a very,very poor leader.

... an opportunity? - for what though?

In 2019 (I think) Donald Trump 'demanded' that our NHS be 'on the table' for any future trade negotiations. Presumably there are rich-pickings for American healthcare corporations. Why else?

Musk's interest is either financial or political - or both.

Whilst pro Musk / Trump enthusiasts over here will be delighted, some of us are concerned that Batman and Robin's involvement in our socio-economic life could be costly to ordinary citizen's social and economic welfare.

As for Starmer and the Labour party, well I'm not overly impressed so far, but it's still early days. But even so - why the heck does it matter to Musk which way the wind blows over here?

Wyllow3

Musk would be attacking whoever it was. it's not the individual, its the politics of the centrist left he doesn't like. He's bothering because he wants the UK to follow USA politics and foreign policies, be the tail that the US dog wags: not pursue links with Europe: he wants to buy, own, control.

That's about the size of it.

I don't know why anyone with an enquiring mind - regardless of their political hue - isn't at all bothered by two powerful, self-regarding, egotistical rich men - one extremely so - wanting to dabble with our sovereignty.

Those who voted to leave the EU, broadly - and I say it simplistically, were fed-up with the organisation "telling us what to do" (and in some respects, they had a point).

Yet here are some of those same people welcoming 'America' who to all intents and purposes are probably going to do the same.

It doesn't make sense to me.

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

If everybody really does think for themselves and is never influenced by social media and targeted marketing, why (if it's true) would Musk even want to give Reform so much money? Why doesn't he just go and deposit it in a black hole somewhere, if it really has no effect?

I'm curious to know how people make decisions, if they never consider any influences outside their own brains.

Trump is finding out that he is not going to get all his own way, moderate Republicans are willing to oppose him if they think his policies are wrong, as they are doing with the current finance bill.
The problem with Musk is that £1billion is small change to him, he can throw money at any whim, it doesn’t have to make business sense to us

Well yes growstuff but that applies to all whether they vote reform, labour or green. There is a view that those who vote differently (the poor people) cant think for themselves and are being led by the 'rich men', but to be honest the non reform voters are just led by different influences.

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

I think a lot of this stuff taps into some warped belief that nobody is listening to " the little man/ woman". We've had enough/ they come here and take our jobs. I want my sovereignty, I don't want scroungers, nobody is listening to the likes of us.

Sovereignty - interesting how the Brexit voters said this is why they wanted out of the EU. Here we are, living with the disaster predicted by remainers and facing the prospect of becoming something like another American state

Galaxy

Well yes growstuff but that applies to all whether they vote reform, labour or green. There is a view that those who vote differently (the poor people) cant think for themselves and are being led by the 'rich men', but to be honest the non reform voters are just led by different influences.

I'm not disagreeing that applies to everybody. I didn't even mention Reform voters. The questions I asked were general. Why is it that some people seem to reckon they think for themselves? Where do they get their ideas from, if nobody and nothing influences them?

Those people who vote 'differently' (not sure whom they vote 'differently' from) who influences them? I don't believe their ideas just spontaneously developed in their heads. It's quite worrying if they can't acknowledge where their ideas came from and who might be trying to influence them - and for what reason.

I dont know growstuff but it apparently just applies to the 'poor people' influenced by rich men not the middle class influenced by the Guardian say.