Bring it on Elon!

There arent many threads complaining about what influenced people to vote labour (might be a lot of threads complaining about labour but that is a different thing) but there is quite a lot of analysis about what influences people to vote trump and Brexit.

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

David49

Trump is finding out that he is not going to get all his own way, moderate Republicans are willing to oppose him if they think his policies are wrong, as they are doing with the current finance bill.
The problem with Musk is that £1billion is small change to him, he can throw money at any whim, it doesn’t have to make business sense to us

As David said, a Trump backed bill failed to pass the Senate.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6l9e3jq7xo

Its very complicated but what interested me in the proceedings was Musk's role.

for example:

"Musk, who Trump has tasked with identifying spending cuts by co-leading the Department of Government Efficiency ( which is not an official government department), lobbied heavily against the existing deal with dozens of posts on X.

He called it "criminal" and often referenced false statements about the bill in his posts

Musk wrote on X that any lawmaker "who votes for this outrageous spending bill deserves to be voted out in 2 years".

After Musk drummed up opposition for the spending bill, Trump and JD Vance, the incoming vice-president, dealt the final blow to Johnson's deal that evening

Who's running the show? And by lies on X?

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

growstuff

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

In your opinion..😜

Galaxy

There arent many threads complaining about what influenced people to vote labour (might be a lot of threads complaining about labour but that is a different thing) but there is quite a lot of analysis about what influences people to vote trump and Brexit.

I'm not playing at deflection. My questions are general - not about any particular political party.

The fact is that ideas don't spontaneously combust in people's brains. People are influenced by propaganda, whether they realise it or not. Some people challenge what they hear or are told, but some don't. People with a coherent argument are prepared (and have the data available) to defend themselves. They don't just deflect and become defensive/aggressive.

Shinamae

growstuff

Shinamae

MayBee70

He sees an opportunity to feather his own nest. And is doing it in the populist way by making poor people think he’s on their side. And sadly many of them fall for it.

And that’s not patronising at all 😂😂

However, it's true.

In your opinion..😜

Nope. It's true.

The evidence is in front of everybody's eyes.

Galaxy

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter.

... so what makes you think that I - for example - am OK with Starmer's increasingly close relationship with 'big business' and the wealthy which has now overtaken donations made by the trade unions? That's apart from the non-cash donations for things like premises, sponsorship, consultancy services, etc?

Of course, parties rely on the backing of donors, that's how it works, but it is not hypocritical to wonder why the world's richest man, who doesn't live here and never has, is allegedly going to donate an amount which might broadly equal the sum total given to all the political parties, to a political party operating as a company.

And I'm pretty sure people can think for themselves and clearly do as they iterate on here and elsewhere their reasoning.

To question their conclusions is not questioning their ability. And I have never, during my whole 'history' on GN ever claimed that those who hold a different political viewpoint to me, are incapable of thinking for themselves.

Galaxy

I dont join in the worry about Musk because I recognise the hypocrisy of it. One of Labours major donors is a South African businessman. The previous owner of Twitter supported the Democrats, financially and via the information on Twitter. I also dont hold the view that the people cant think for themselves, I understand perfectly why they reject that viewpoint.

In the USA this is what was spent in the last election - absolute billions

2024*Total $15,901,068,285
Divided by general spending$10,286,346,287
Presidential contest$5,514,721,998

www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/cost-of-election.

Money clearly counts in winning elections and promoting viewpoints and the last elections falsehoods were used and passed on frequently. Yes, I think people can decide for themselves, but clearly money can buy votes from some.

I'd hope to try and keep things different in the UK

I'm not particularly in favour of very large donations here either and hope there can be ways of limiting this, but bear in mind the difference between the scale of donations (top donations in the UK for elections were 2 million Sainsbury's and 4.5 million Lubner.) and Musk's £78.000.000

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be defensive when they are called thick for their voting choices ( I am not saying you do this but it is a common refrain about reform, trump, etc.) They are being called thick by the same people who pretend that Biden is fine, etc etc.
It is very difficult for the left or whoever to complain about Musks money when Harris spent billions, and had the great and good of Hollywood behind her. The previous owner of Twitter donated to the Democrats and played games with speech in order to promote their cause.

One of the memes going round following the Trump defeat is "President Musk".

Galaxy

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be defensive when they are called thick for their voting choices ( I am not saying you do this but it is a common refrain about reform, trump, etc.) They are being called thick by the same people who pretend that Biden is fine, etc etc.
It is very difficult for the left or whoever to complain about Musks money when Harris spent billions, and had the great and good of Hollywood behind her. The previous owner of Twitter donated to the Democrats and played games with speech in order to promote their cause.

I'm not happy with that either (democrats) Galaxy as I made clear. It's about buying votes whoever you support

when 15.000.000.000 is spent on an election overall.

I've never called someone thick or ignorant for the way they've voted, but I do query sources of information people have, its veracity, query the motivations for sinking what is to us in the UK huge amounts of money.

Galaxy

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to be defensive when they are called thick for their voting choices ( I am not saying you do this but it is a common refrain about reform, trump, etc.) They are being called thick by the same people who pretend that Biden is fine, etc etc.
It is very difficult for the left or whoever to complain about Musks money when Harris spent billions, and had the great and good of Hollywood behind her. The previous owner of Twitter donated to the Democrats and played games with speech in order to promote their cause.

Why do you keep deflecting?

I'm sure I learnt at a very young age that two wrongs don't make a right.

People are influenced by propaganda, whether they realise it or not. Some people challenge what they hear or are told, but some don't

And some people are just sick and tired of what they see in front of their eyes as they walk around their towns and cities. And yes see on all tv channels (so no bias). Many of us truly want Change. Some hoped Starmer would supply it. Some didn’t vote for him because they had a gut feeling he wouldn’t be able to supply it.

Many of our institutions are swollen yet broken. The old boy network stymies Change.

Many who voted Reform (me for one) want real Change. A new broom to sweep clean if you will. Brush out all the deadwood instead of throwing more money at it. “Drain the Swamp” as Trump called it. Any why not?

Our services aren’t working, the NHS is, according to Wes Streeting (of whom I had higher hopes) who said it’s actually broken, the Civil Service seems full of “Yes Ministers”, Starmer is knocking on the EU door just because HE (who wanted that 2nd referendum) thinks it’s a good idea (clue: it’s not, they have better negotiators and will take him to the cleaners for sure) and we are about to go into recession thanks to Reeves policies. Water, rail and energy are expensive and in a mess. Councils spend money unwisely then cry “we’re bankrupt” and raise their demands.

Prisons are full.
Irregular migrants are in our hotels at our expense.
The Police can’t cope (thanks Theresa May the worst Home Secretary we have ever had for hollowing that service out in the good name of austerity).
The judiciary has a huge backlog waiting for Court sittings (yet what’s the point there’s no prison spaces m’Lud).
Knife crime 🔼
Stabbings 🔼
Shoplifting by organised gangs in town centres 🔼🔼
Potholes aren’t filled
There are enough Cass report has been ignored (shamefully) by some institutions
There are enough dentists (unless you happen to have arrived on our shores in a rubber boat).
We just don’t feel we are being listened to any more!

Blimey. And that’s just SOME of the mess citizens of the UK can SEE for themselves.

Vote Reform if you want Real Change. It’s the only way now it’s gonna happen. Patriotic feelings are not unlawful. We ought not to be shy of saying we want better for our country.

Deflecting from what? I am saying it is hypocrisy and that many are watching it with bored resignation. It is just people a bit cross because the other side has more money or currently has control of social media.

*arent enough

Oh and I think reform will do well with or without musks help.
But then again I predicted Harris would win.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^People are influenced by propaganda, whether they realise it or not. Some people challenge what they hear or are told, but some don't^

And some people are just sick and tired of what they see in front of their eyes as they walk around their towns and cities. And yes see on all tv channels (so no bias). Many of us truly want Change. Some hoped Starmer would supply it. Some didn’t vote for him because they had a gut feeling he wouldn’t be able to supply it.

Many of our institutions are swollen yet broken. The old boy network stymies Change.

Many who voted Reform (me for one) want real Change. A new broom to sweep clean if you will. Brush out all the deadwood instead of throwing more money at it. “Drain the Swamp” as Trump called it. Any why not?

Our services aren’t working, the NHS is, according to Wes Streeting (of whom I had higher hopes) who said it’s actually broken, the Civil Service seems full of “Yes Ministers”, Starmer is knocking on the EU door just because HE (who wanted that 2nd referendum) thinks it’s a good idea (clue: it’s not, they have better negotiators and will take him to the cleaners for sure) and we are about to go into recession thanks to Reeves policies. Water, rail and energy are expensive and in a mess. Councils spend money unwisely then cry “we’re bankrupt” and raise their demands.

Prisons are full.
Irregular migrants are in our hotels at our expense.
The Police can’t cope (thanks Theresa May the worst Home Secretary we have ever had for hollowing that service out in the good name of austerity).
The judiciary has a huge backlog waiting for Court sittings (yet what’s the point there’s no prison spaces m’Lud).
Knife crime 🔼
Stabbings 🔼
Shoplifting by organised gangs in town centres 🔼🔼
Potholes aren’t filled
There are enough Cass report has been ignored (shamefully) by some institutions
There are enough dentists (unless you happen to have arrived on our shores in a rubber boat).
We just don’t feel we are being listened to any more!

Blimey. And that’s just SOME of the mess citizens of the UK can SEE for themselves.

Vote Reform if you want Real Change. It’s the only way now it’s gonna happen. Patriotic feelings are not unlawful. We ought not to be shy of saying we want better for our country.

I totally agree FGT but you have put it so much better than I could, thank you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

You've outlined the problems bequeathed to us in July after years of years of neglect very well.

Its just that you don't actually say in any way how Reform would sort all these out, however many times you are asked.

Saying you want "Real Change" means nothing without saying what the Real Change would actually be,

It's just gung-ho rhetoric. I really actually have no idea what you mean in practice.

I'm also not clear what you mean by "Patriotic feelings are not unlawful"?

I'm also not clear what you mean by "Patriotic feelings are not unlawful"?

That made me laugh

Especially in view of the fact that Reform's leader wants to sell the UK to the USA...

Galaxy

Oh and I think reform will do well with or without musks help.
But then again I predicted Harris would win.

I think Reform will do tremendously well at the next GE!
And I predicted Trump would win. 😁

Farage doesn’t want to sell the UK to the USA.
Emulate some of their better ideas - yes - and I’m glad!

So an answer to "What is Real Change" is just to repeat that "Reform will do well?"

💁

Oh lots of ideas.
Raising our personal allowance for one so we can all keep more of our money. Great idea!