Donald Trump said his nephew’s disabled son should be left to die!

Of course that was completely wrong and no excuse for it. You had every right to choose

Serious fetal problems can be diagnosed now by ultrasound and MRI as well.

The right to choose includes decisions about resources should your child need special care.

Whitewavemark2

HousePlantQueen

Kandinsky

In terms of disabled children/people, I very much value these people and feel that they add value to our lives

Our very own NHS sees things differently - which is why they offer all pregnant women tests to check for Down’s syndrome ( and a couple of other syndromes ) and if these tests are positive they offer a free of charge termination.
something like 90% of parents do terminate a Down’s syndrome pregnancy.

What do you think of this NHS service?

I think it is pro choice. What are you trying to imply?

I worked in a school with children with severe physical and cognitive disabilities.

In my opinion, actively keeping some of those children alive at birth where intervention was required amounted to abuse.

We cared for children in severe pain, without swallow reflexes, who constantly fitted and other dreadful pain filled conditions.

Under what universe would you condemn a poor child to be born into such a ghastly existence, when you had the ability to abort at a very early stage?

Under what universe would you condemn a poor child to be born into such a ghastly existence, when you had the ability to abort at a very early stage?

These children's conditions were readily known early in the pregnancy were they? I was unaware they routinely tested for swallow reflexes, fitting and cognitive abilities in utero. I would have assumed most of these problems became apparent at birth so I shall have to ask the midwives in my family about these screening programs.

I do agree that just because medical science can doesn't mean it must or necessarily should give every intervention. However in my own extended family there is a child born at 25 weeks for whom every intervention was made and that child is a normal, happy, healthy 4 year old. With hindsight the interventions were correct but who was to know?

In my volunteer role I have contact with many people with Down syndrome, the world would not have been a better place if they had been aborted.

theworriedwell, that was just awful and so wrong, and I am very sorry you had to go through this.

However, this has really nothing to compare as with Assisted Dying, none whatsoever. As with the latter, the person themselves have to make a clear choice, and a totally personal REQUEST, in very specific circumstances, for help to avoid the last painful last stages of a terminal illness. Withe every step taken to ensure no coercion.

The USA Pro-life movement, which makes it impossible for a woman to chose early in pregnancy, but just not care at all for what happens to the woman and the child post birth- is just sick.

There are lists of what the 18-20 week ultrasound can detect Rosie you are right that

"I was unaware they routinely tested for swallow reflexes, fitting and cognitive abilities in utero." are not on the list

but other really serious difficulties are and then its ups to the family and doctor to discuss? what the family might have to cope with?

LizzieDrip

Claremont this is from Wikipedia:

His youngest child William has the genetic variant KCNQ2 and a seizure disorder, requiring a lifetime of care

I think the young man has a range of complex needs.

I asked before most Downs children and adults do have a happy life, and bring so much joy to their parents and families, and the world at large.

It sounds as this child may have a very different life, and perhaps no quality of conscious life either. And I do feel that sometimes the modern world is very cruel towards some extreme cases, using modern medicine to prolong lives at all costs, and not just financial, when perhaps allowing nature to decide to some extent. I know I will probably be highly criticised for saying so-but to me, it makes humane sense.

TheWeirdoAgain59

Regarding The Donald, I've always thought what a great pity it is that his mother never had an abortion! Same with Must or Moosk or whatever the idiots stupid name is!

Hear,hear!

Claremont

theworriedwell, that was just awful and so wrong, and I am very sorry you had to go through this.

However, this has really nothing to compare as with Assisted Dying, none whatsoever. As with the latter, the person themselves have to make a clear choice, and a totally personal REQUEST, in very specific circumstances, for help to avoid the last painful last stages of a terminal illness. Withe every step taken to ensure no coercion.

You might feel that doctor wouldn't have a similar view of the disabled or terminally ill. I'm not convinced.

If I said what I think of Trump I’d be banned.
I worked with similar children WW many in a children’s home, most abused, so I chose, in fact paid, for a new test when pregnant with my son. There are certain conditions, had they been identified I’d have chosen a termination, I’d seen the reality first hand.

My late MIL always maintained that severely handicapped babies should be left to peacefully pass away. I used to think she was hard hearted but my views have changed.

I had a friend at primary school who had a severely handicapped slightly younger sister. She was unable to speak, feed herself, her eyes just rolled round and round, she just sat all day, every day in her huge padded wheelchair that supported her whole body. Obviously she was doubly incontinent, unable to stand or do anything for herself.
Her Mum looked after her until she was 10 but it was such a struggle as she got bigger and heavier that she then went into a home.

Amazingly she is still alive and now 68 years old. She is just the same as she was as a baby. Her care must have cost absolutely millions which, in my opinion, could have been better spent.

Her mother died many years ago, as did her brother. Her sister visits her just once a year now as she has never recognised or interacted with any of them.

If she had just slipped away after birth, the family would have been sad but they would have been spared years of caring for her and decades of visiting and worrying about her.

It’s not just the family Primrose, more importantly what sort of life (existence?) has she ever had? My opinion is that such babies should be allowed to peacefully pass away - but then, thank God, my child and my grandchildren were not born with such terrible handicaps.

It's odd the way this thread has gone surely the issue with Trump was not whether or not he believed it was better to let severely disabled children die but the fact that he had so little empathy for his nephew that he thought it was appropriate to say what he did to him? I find it shocking that anyone would have so little feeling that they felt able to say what he did to the parent of a child that was obviously loved and cared for despite his disabilities.

Wyllow3

Fred Trumps' son has parents who can afford the care help, and treatments.

Just read an article on Texas.

Texas abortion laws prohibit almost all abortions, with exceptions for cases where the mother's life or health is at risk. The laws also impose civil and criminal penalties for those who perform abortions.

Heart breaking waits and lack of care for children born with birth disabilities. Further cuts on the way with Trump cuts.

Cannot express how angry I feel.

Several pregnant women have actually died in Texas trying to get medical care when problems in a pregnancy arise.

Happened in Georgia too.

I am absolutely certain it has happened in the UK,too. And in Australia. I had my first child in England and was totally neglected and nearly died. My Australian obstetrician told me I had been very badly treated but as it was my first then I had just accepted that they leave placentas behind and let you bleed for 9 weeks with no help whatsoever. This was in the 1970 s . I might add that the hospital was filthy and overrun with cockroaches. Australia was a breath of fresh air after that, even though I went ‘public’. I hope things have improved but I doubt it somehow.

Blimey nanna where on earth was that hospital?!

Our NHS has had many problems - but I’ve never heard of them being filthy, over run with cockroaches and such problems with childbirth,

You need to get up to speed quickly.

I live on the south coast and our local hospital is about 5 years old now. Originally commissioned by the labour government. It is light and airy with small wards and many single rooms (in fact hospitals commissioned now will all have single rooms according to my neighbour who deals with such things).

It is a university hospital, that trains many doctors, which I know from personal experience benefits other countries like Australia.

Our doctors are without doubt some of the best trained in the world, and it is recognised so.

So please don’t disparage an institution that has saved so many lives, that has been admired snd copied world wide and still survives despite everything that has been thrown at it including chronic lack of funding.

Wow nanna!

Here’s an alternative experience.

I gave birth to my daughter in an NHS hospital the 1970s. I was very young, and naive about anything to do with childbirth - so needed all the help I could get.

I received the most marvellous care both during and after the birth - physically and emotionally.

Hospital spotless; no cockroaches!

Your experience was unfortunate but, as WW says, “please don’t disparage an entire institution that has saved many lives”… and continues to do so on a daily basis.

I had my children in the Royal Free, Hampstead in the 1890s. Fabulous anti and post natal care. The week spent there was like a 4* hotel, everything was available for mothers and babies.
A bit OTT perhaps, but we must support the NHS.

”but we must support the NHS”

I agree J52.

We hear of the times when things have gone wrong and, tragic though they are, such events are a tiny minority.

What we don’t hear about, so much, is the caring, life-saving, ground-breaking work of the NHS that continues 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

We in the UK are fortunate to benefit from this most wonderful institution.

Claremont

The USA Pro-life movement, which makes it impossible for a woman to chose early in pregnancy, but just not care at all for what happens to the woman and the child post birth- is just sick.

Absolutely! They are actually “pro birth” , no help at all but these poor babies and often young mums in poverty,

nanna8

I am absolutely certain it has happened in the UK,too. And in Australia. I had my first child in England and was totally neglected and nearly died. My Australian obstetrician told me I had been very badly treated but as it was my first then I had just accepted that they leave placentas behind and let you bleed for 9 weeks with no help whatsoever. This was in the 1970 s . I might add that the hospital was filthy and overrun with cockroaches. Australia was a breath of fresh air after that, even though I went ‘public’. I hope things have improved but I doubt it somehow.

Good lord, never heard of such a thing!

I’ve had four children born between 1985 and 2002, in all cases my maternity care, both pre and post, was excellent and the hospitals wards clean.

LizzieDrip

Wow nanna!

Here’s an alternative experience.

I gave birth to my daughter in an NHS hospital the 1970s. I was very young, and naive about anything to do with childbirth - so needed all the help I could get.

I received the most marvellous care both during and after the birth - physically and emotionally.

Hospital spotless; no cockroaches!

Your experience was unfortunate but, as WW says, “please don’t disparage an entire institution that has saved many lives”… and continues to do so on a daily basis.

I had my first in 1971 and I was a teenager and also had wonderful care except for the doctor who stitched me. That was the only unpleasant bit.

i had my children in the early 1970s. I was far better looked after than my DiL in the 2000s

Galaxy

Well that sounds awful but it is pretty much what I think will happen with the assisted dying bill. I personally dont think either side gives much care to those with disabilities.

Galaxy thank goodness the world is not peopled with Donald Trumps. He is a narcissist and they make statements like that.

This attitude of Trumps has absolutely nothing to do with assisted dying which is a loving and deeply compassionate process that many countries have adopted to make the end of life for people who are terminally ill and suffering greatly,as pain free and dignified as possible. I have faith in our society that this process, once adopted, will not be abused in the way you seem to think.

nanna8

I am absolutely certain it has happened in the UK,too. And in Australia. I had my first child in England and was totally neglected and nearly died. My Australian obstetrician told me I had been very badly treated but as it was my first then I had just accepted that they leave placentas behind and let you bleed for 9 weeks with no help whatsoever. This was in the 1970 s . I might add that the hospital was filthy and overrun with cockroaches. Australia was a breath of fresh air after that, even though I went ‘public’. I hope things have improved but I doubt it somehow.

Australian maternity care was truly dreadful. And that was private in the 2000s.

Cossy

nanna8

I am absolutely certain it has happened in the UK,too. And in Australia. I had my first child in England and was totally neglected and nearly died. My Australian obstetrician told me I had been very badly treated but as it was my first then I had just accepted that they leave placentas behind and let you bleed for 9 weeks with no help whatsoever. This was in the 1970 s . I might add that the hospital was filthy and overrun with cockroaches. Australia was a breath of fresh air after that, even though I went ‘public’. I hope things have improved but I doubt it somehow.

Good lord, never heard of such a thing!

I’ve had four children born between 1985 and 2002, in all cases my maternity care, both pre and post, was excellent and the hospitals wards clean.

I had wonderful health care.. lovely clean, though old, hospital and exceptional midwives. I was in hospital for about 5 days
unheard of now but I remember feeling confident when I went home..