J D Vance Munich address today.

Babs03

www.thenational.scot/news/24937742.scottish-campaigners-respond-jd-vances-buffer-zone-lie/

Lies of course. But sadly some will believe it.

It’s simply propaganda, very dangerous.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87d9j17pjqo.amp

This article gives a good idea of the overall context of his arrest - its part of a much wider picture which includes US groups involved in British abortion issues - he had announced his "protest" in advance, it was all about publicity for this US funded group.
www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/16/prayer-and-prosecutions-the-us-hate-group-waging-war-over-britains-abortion-clinic-buffer-zones

Oreo

Hard to believe that anyone silently praying or even audibly praying would be arrested.

But they already have. A lady has been taken to court several times over this in England I believe.
I'm out but I'll find her name for you Oreo then you can read for yourself.

Already rwad it wilow it doesn't answer anything relevant to my point.

My point is about having the right to think anything one wants to think.
The state should have no jurisdiction over free thought.
Incitement to violence is already covered by our laws
I am interested in finding the truth about these letters and not the abortion argument.

The Police are already acting on behalf of the state by arresting people
Free speach for all is a difficult subject for people to grapple with sometimes
But it is fundamental to our communities cohesion that it is upheld, imv

We're getting confused over 2 issues.

1. Public prayer in abortion buffer zones which sometimes includes handing out anti-abortion leaflets:
whether in any given case the person is breaking guidelines as to trying to intimidate or otherwise suggest that women seeking help is doing wrong.

The lady Namsnanny mentioned is in this article
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gze361j7xo#:~:text=Isabel%20Vaughan%2DSpruce%20from%20Worcestershire,for%20women%20in%20crisis%20pregnancies%22.

2. Accusations by Vance and rumours on SM that people living within the buffer zone have received letters saying the cannot pray within their own homes.

Its important to realise that (1) above is backed by US connected anti-abortion organisations who are out for publicity -

and imo should leave the womens health clinics - which of course include other aspects of womens reproductive health - to carry on their work free from threats.

No I dont think freedom of speech includes harassing women going to health clinics, including saying they are committing sins and wrong in gods eyes.

People praying outside abortion clinics is provocative and makes those who have made the very difficult decision to abort feel even more guilty.
Anti abortionists are imposing their views on others. It is intimidating and to me a form of bullying.

Namsnanny

My point is about having the right to think anything one wants to think.
The state should have no jurisdiction over free thought.
Incitement to violence is already covered by our laws
I am interested in finding the truth about these letters and not the abortion argument.

The Police are already acting on behalf of the state by arresting people
Free speach for all is a difficult subject for people to grapple with sometimes
But it is fundamental to our communities cohesion that it is upheld, imv

No one has the right, ever, to make any woman feels uncomfortable or afraid when consulting or using a clinic to terminate a pregnancy.

The decision to abort a baby must be emotionally heartbreaking without a group of religious pro-lifers making it harder.

I agree that it is horrible the bullying that goes on outside abortion clinics, the women/girls who decide to abort do not take it lightly, many are vulnerable and distressed. It is not, as some claim, a form of contraception, that is ridiculous, no women these days would put their bodies through the rigours of becoming pregnant and then the rigours of an abortion unless they had to.
Vance is a misogynist whose opinions on anything to do with women should be routinely dismissed.
He is an odious man.

Letters were sent out to anyone living within the buffer-zones (200 metres) of any health clinics offering terminations. People have been advised, very clearly, that they would be breaking the law if they put up posters within sight of the clinics, or visibly demonstrated agains legal abortions, even from their own gardens, if it could be heard from just outside the clinics.

This does not include praying inside their own homes, silently or otherwise, or cover anyone’s right to freedom of thought!

It’s utterly irresponsible to use this as propaganda and it’s absolutely awful for Vance to use this in a speech to tell his audience Britons have no freedom of speech.

Babs03

I agree that it is horrible the bullying that goes on outside abortion clinics, the women/girls who decide to abort do not take it lightly, many are vulnerable and distressed. It is not, as some claim, a form of contraception, that is ridiculous, no women these days would put their bodies through the rigours of becoming pregnant and then the rigours of an abortion unless they had to.
Vance is a misogynist whose opinions on anything to do with women should be routinely dismissed.
He is an odious man.

👏👏👏👏

Namsnanny

My point is about having the right to think anything one wants to think.
The state should have no jurisdiction over free thought.
Incitement to violence is already covered by our laws
I am interested in finding the truth about these letters and not the abortion argument.

The Police are already acting on behalf of the state by arresting people
Free speach for all is a difficult subject for people to grapple with sometimes
But it is fundamental to our communities cohesion that it is upheld, imv

The letters sent out were only sent to residents living in the buffer-zone, so abortion is an integral part of this entire issue.

No one has been fined for their “thoughts”

Anti abortionists are using prayer like a weapon to get their own way. I doubt whether their God would approve of this sort of prayer. They are eroding the rights of women.
Free speech goes both ways and women have the right to say they want privacy and not to be heckled by praying anti abortionists. Because that is what they are doing using bullying tactics

In Matthew 6, Jesus tells us not to pray publicly, "as the hypocrites love to do", as they like to be seen, but privately.

I am a woman and am quite frightened by the pro palestine protests that happen. I find those protests bullying and threatening. Can I suggest they dont happen.? I am pro abortion and with some reservations agreed with the idea of buffer zones, but the thing is it rarely stops there does it.
I dont need Vance to explain about the issues of freedom of speech in the UK, most feminists know the problems we have faced with regard to speech in the last few years. The fact that the left have handed this as a gift to the right is ridiculous.

Galaxy

I am a woman and am quite frightened by the pro palestine protests that happen. I find those protests bullying and threatening. Can I suggest they dont happen.? I am pro abortion and with some reservations agreed with the idea of buffer zones, but the thing is it rarely stops there does it.
I dont need Vance to explain about the issues of freedom of speech in the UK, most feminists know the problems we have faced with regard to speech in the last few years. The fact that the left have handed this as a gift to the right is ridiculous.

I agree with the point that no-one, male or female, should be intimidated simply going about their business in the street, by any so-called peaceful protests.

I think it's passive aggression. Anyone who really cared for the unborn children would pray at home or in their place of worship. My religious friends say God will hear wherever you pray.
Anti abortionists who pray outside abortion clinics are hypocrites.

Wyllow3

No I dont think freedom of speech includes harassing women going to health clinics, including saying they are committing sins and wrong in gods eyes.

Who said it did?
Don't conflate my position.
I'm talking about freedom of thought and speech NOT harassment of women, or abortion.
It just so happens the two topics converge

Cossy

Namsnanny

My point is about having the right to think anything one wants to think.
The state should have no jurisdiction over free thought.
Incitement to violence is already covered by our laws
I am interested in finding the truth about these letters and not the abortion argument.

The Police are already acting on behalf of the state by arresting people
Free speach for all is a difficult subject for people to grapple with sometimes
But it is fundamental to our communities cohesion that it is upheld, imv

The letters sent out were only sent to residents living in the buffer-zone, so abortion is an integral part of this entire issue.

No one has been fined for their “thoughts”

So you are sure the letters were sent then?

So many have been sure this is a lie

Sago

I have just listened to J D Vance’s speech in Munich today.

It was absolutely spot on, what a man!

What a worm!

Namsnanny

Cossy

Namsnanny

My point is about having the right to think anything one wants to think.
The state should have no jurisdiction over free thought.
Incitement to violence is already covered by our laws
I am interested in finding the truth about these letters and not the abortion argument.

The Police are already acting on behalf of the state by arresting people
Free speach for all is a difficult subject for people to grapple with sometimes
But it is fundamental to our communities cohesion that it is upheld, imv

The letters sent out were only sent to residents living in the buffer-zone, so abortion is an integral part of this entire issue.

No one has been fined for their “thoughts”

So you are sure the letters were sent then?

So many have been sure this is a lie

Just bumping.

Cossy

Galaxy

I am a woman and am quite frightened by the pro palestine protests that happen. I find those protests bullying and threatening. Can I suggest they dont happen.? I am pro abortion and with some reservations agreed with the idea of buffer zones, but the thing is it rarely stops there does it.
I dont need Vance to explain about the issues of freedom of speech in the UK, most feminists know the problems we have faced with regard to speech in the last few years. The fact that the left have handed this as a gift to the right is ridiculous.

I agree with the point that no-one, male or female, should be intimidated simply going about their business in the street, by any so-called peaceful protests.

I agree wholeheartedly with your post Galaxy and your additional points cossy.
But would add how much more passive can you be than silently thinking/praying?

There were letters sent out to residents, in the buffer zone, see the Scottish Daily Express for a photo of one.

Sadly this means JDV has a better handle on what is happening here than some of us UK citizens.
Perhaps our media should try to be more circumspect when reporting?

What was wrong with the letters, no one told anyone not to pray or think.

The articles that have been produced on this page from the BBC etc make me very uncomfortable, it is an authoritarian approach that scares me. These discussions on speech have been going on long before Vance became involved it is just no one was listening.