Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

Camille333

Trump is all over Putin ,not one word of criticism,whilst Zelensky is treated like the enemy

Because Trump lives far enough away not to be involved in war.

Mollygo

Camille333

Trump is all over Putin ,not one word of criticism,whilst Zelensky is treated like the enemy

Because Trump lives far enough away not to be involved in war.

The rhetoric is changing, it looks like the deal is Trump is offering is arms for minerals, so that he can justify spending on arms and if needed defending Ukraine against further invasion.

So the US gets the minerals it wants and Ukraine gets the security it needs and is allowed to remain neutral outside NATO. We will soon see a framework for an end to the war from “Trump the peacemaker”

I have yet to hear anything that mentions US providing security for Ukraine. It's all still very woolly. But at least the US has rowed back from saying Ukraine started the war, at least ATM!

I did see assertions on bluesky the other day that Ukraine’s minerals are virtually worthless from a profit seeker point of view because the extracting them will be extremely costly. I have no idea if this is true.
Has anyone else seen this?

Of course Trump wants Zelensky out and Putin's chocie in.

Trump sold out to the Russians years ago.

Trump wants to be on the winning side-Very Vicar of Bray.

As I said previously it’s all designed to force Zelensky to make a deal with Trump for Ukraines mineral wealth and according to all the papers that is what Zelensky will be meeting with Trump to do on Friday.

MaizieD

I did see assertions on bluesky the other day that Ukraine’s minerals are virtually worthless from a profit seeker point of view because the extracting them will be extremely costly. I have no idea if this is true.
Has anyone else seen this?

Yes I did see that.

I’ll mention it to son see what he thinks (geologist) he may have some idea.

But I thought it made sense. I wouldn’t be remotely surprised to learn that Trump had not thought it through.

Mollygo

Trump wants to be on the winning side-Very Vicar of Bray.

More Vicar Of Dibley, eating as many Christmas dinners as possible 😄

25Avalon

As I said previously it’s all designed to force Zelensky to make a deal with Trump for Ukraines mineral wealth and according to all the papers that is what Zelensky will be meeting with Trump to do on Friday.

It’s what a lot of people thought isn’t it?

MaizieD

I did see assertions on bluesky the other day that Ukraine’s minerals are virtually worthless from a profit seeker point of view because the extracting them will be extremely costly. I have no idea if this is true.
Has anyone else seen this?

What I saw was that it would be many years before there would be any profit as the extraction would take time and of course money.
It seems that Trump is very eager to have those minerals so there must be a huge profit for him down the line.

What I don't understand is what basis - well, where the borders are supposed to be in a peace settlement

Has Trump/anyone actually said? all so murky to me.

What is Russia supposed to get out of it? Trump wants his minerals and this means no doubt aspects of control? Are we in UK and EU supposed to peace keep for the US's benefit?

It looks as though Putin will retain the lands he has stolen from Ukraine which are rich in the rare minerals.
He will be rewarded for the invasion.
Trump has also not agreed to any more help for Ukraine so it seems Ukraine could be left in a precarious state.

AGAA4

It looks as though Putin will retain the lands he has stolen from Ukraine which are rich in the rare minerals.
He will be rewarded for the invasion.
Trump has also not agreed to any more help for Ukraine so it seems Ukraine could be left in a precarious state.

At least they are talking, and being civil to each other, if Trump gets the minerals he wants he will step up to defending them. Looking at the mineral map Russia has about 1/3 of them, they are difficult to extract and most are refined in China, that does not sound good and most likely a refining plant will be set up in Ukraine.

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.

NotSpaghetti

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.

There will be an election in Ukraine when the war ends, it’s probably best if he isnt candidate, let’s not get too far ahead get an agreement first.

David49

eazybee

Trump out to get hold of Ukraine's mineral reserves.

His true colours.

Didn't take long.
Oh, Fried Green Tomatoes."

The US has always tried to get benefit out of helping friends, they did very well out of WW1 and WW2, Trump is following on that trait.
That aside he really doesn’t not want to get involved in a war with Russia, that could get really nasty.

Indeed, David.

We only need look back to Lend-Lease Act in 1941.

David49

NotSpaghetti

Ukraine wants security for a share of mineral wealth.

Trump doesn't want to provide security.

Russia will do as it pleases if no security in place.

Zelenskyy said (yesterday I think) that there is no deal without security but he is prepared to resign if it means Ukraine is safe.

There will be an election in Ukraine when the war ends, it’s probably best if he isnt candidate, let’s not get too far ahead get an agreement first.

Well thats not a deal Ukraine or EU could accept is it?

Give way a third of the country, let Trump have his £££££££ minerals

* but with no responsibility or shelling out to keep Russia at bay*,

Zelensky resign for no purpose, Russia could decide to expand again

and us in Europe left to assist a shrunk Ukraine for Trumps benefit?

I'm not sure what you are saying David. I was just repeating what Zelenskyy had said. I'm not "getting too far ahead". This is exactly what is relevant now.... this is the deal he's trying to push for.

Ukraine has a law that no elections can take place whilst there's unrest. It's obvious that they can't do it logistically anyway but this law has been in place for about 10 years.

He was basically saying that if he was an impediment then he's happy to go. He said something like "if this is required to bring peace to my country".

A bit from todays timeline from Trump on BBC feed

(Nobody apparently will mess with US workers in the Ukraine because Europe is going to provide security, not the US??)

Trump says the minerals deal "is a great deal for Ukraine too because they get us over there, we are going to be working over there

We will be on the land and that way there is going to be automatic security because nobody is going to be messing around with our people when we are there," he says

Trump was responding to a reporter who asked what kind of security guarantees he is willing to make as part of his mineral deal with Ukraine.

In his reply, he also says that he is "not going to make security guarantees beyond... very much

The arrogance.

"We're going to have Europe do that, because it's in... you know, we're talking about Europe is their next door neighbour," he says.

The Trump is being arrogant, he can afford to be because he’s the only one that can end the war in Ukraine. There is no way that Europe is going to do anything without US guarantees.

The US has tried to get advantage through war, it certainly did In WW1, WW2, and Korea, but not Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan, at that time the US wanted them to become democracies, which failed miserably, cost the US Billions of dollars with hundreds of thousands of lives lost.

Trump has changed that, dont interfere with their way of government, don’t fight, do the deal and defend that deal.
That’s pretty much the way China works loans in exchange for resources, Trump is a bully for sure but he realizes he can’t bully Putin because Putin will fight, that’s the best that can be achieved.

do the deal and defend that deal?

Zelenskyy wants security for his country.
No security means the "deal" is barely worth the paper it's written on.

Putin is unable to honour "a deal"
... and sadly so is Trump - and neither the UK nor America have honoured "deals" in the past.

I agree with Zelenskyy - in my opinion if Trump wants shares in Ukraine's natural resources he should secure (with help ftom others), their safety ftom Putin.

Well thats one of Starmers efforts today - has to be US back up. I won't blame him if he gets a blank no, but I dont see how Zelensky can sign a dal tomorrow - as Trump keeps saying - for mineral rights without the defence to go with it.

Never heard something so ludicrous - US insisting the EU protect the US mining in Ukraine. IN return for what?

I wonder what "concessions" Trump has really won from Russia as regards the border?

Correction - Sign a deal.

Exactly Wyllow

I hope Starmer is persuasive. 🤞
And then that Trump honours it.