Zelensky - is Trump ousting him out to make way for a Putin choice?

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Trump just sees the mineral deal as payment for the help the US has given to Ukraine so far. He doesn't want to carry on with the defence of Ukraine and leaves it to Ukraine s neighbours.
I hope that if US personnel are in Ukraine and Russia does strike again that the EU says it's only responsible for Ukraine and the US can look after it's own people.

Namsnanny

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Chamberlain knew Britain wasn’t prepared for a major war, much the same position now, Europe the same. Europe on its own can’t do anything without US fully committed, all the leaders recognize that. At least the slanging match has stopped and they are talking seriously.

M0nica

Of course Trump wants Zelensky out and Putin's chocie in.

Trump sold out to the Russians years ago.

Forgive me for asking you M0nica as I see many people saying the same thing, but is there an explanation somewhere of how Trump sold out to the Russians?

Did he get contracts, money, rights to start business in Russia? Or something else?

Putin is corrupt and has amassed a personal fortune, often in his 'trusted' oligarchs names, but am I right in thinking Russia can be compared to Italy in terms of manufacturing GDP? So quite small compared to USA.

Doesn't the interference from the USA - Victoria Nuland show a case for the USA Biden or CIA as being the beneficiaries of back channel nefarious dealings?

Don't think for one moment that I believe DJT isn't susceptible to corruption.
I just don't know.
I do know the public are susceptible to propaganda, spin and a lack of information.

David49

Namsnanny

Whitewavemark2

Appeasement is never a good look

Easily said Wwmk2, if you arn't the one paying the price.

Neville Chamberlain was hailed as a heroic statesman at the time.

Chamberlain knew Britain wasn’t prepared for a major war, much the same position now, Europe the same. Europe on its own can’t do anything without US fully committed, all the leaders recognize that. At least the slanging match has stopped and they are talking seriously.

Not sure I quite understand you david49 - are we (you and I) saying the same thing?

Trump doesn't care if he is being used by Putin- he only cares about making some money out of a deal.

Putin doesn't care about Trump- he only cares about saving face after a disastrous attempt to invade Ukrine.

Zelensky only cares about Ukraine and has shown this time and again.

I have no idea how this is going to end- and neither does anyone else...

There only 3 really big sharks, ruling the major powers, Putin, Trump & Xi, they will decide what happens to Ukraine.

I wonder what would have happened if Harris had been elected?

Having just watched the press conference I’m astounded. It was awkward viewing. Trump needs to realise he isn’t doing business deals. This is geo politics and the horrors the people of Ukraine have endured deserves to be acknowledged. The way Zelenskyy was spoken to was disgraceful.

BBC News - www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c625ex282zzt
Trump tells Zelensky 'make a deal or we're out' in angry White House meeting - follow live - BBC News
Zelensky being berated like a naughty child. No diplomacy being shown here.

Extraordinary row, Shocking behaviour from Trump and Vance.

Just disgraceful behaviour! Ukraine can't agree to this deal unless there is some guarantee that Putin will not invade again once he's regrouped and re-armed. I am so angry for Zelensky and the Ukrainian people, Trump and Vance's behaviour towards Zelensky was just vile bullying! My goodness, we need to keep the US at arms length and start taking our part as a European country, we can no longer rely on the US being a friendly ally with Trump in power.

Disgusting behaviour.

What was Trump actually bringing to the table to relieve matters?
Nothing. Nothing out of his own talks with Putin, nothing to offer Zelensky back.

I thought Vance was particularly unpleasant.. It was like a dual act that Trump and Vance had planned in advance.. I really respect Valensky for holding his ground even when he didn't achieve anything..

China, Russia and USA will have the world stitched up soon

China, Russia and USA will have the world stitched up soon
It's frightening, isn't it.

We will see what happens next Zelensky didn’t need to be told that he couldn’t carry on without US support, now everyone knows, Ukrainians know too. Europe will offer support but that’s not going to include military aid.

Zelensky is going to have to come back cap in hand for what deal he can get or surrender to Russia because he can’t fight on with out the US. Whatever the negotiations result in I hope the humiliating spectacle on TV isn’t repeated.

Putin will be loving this, it is playing completely into his hands and tbh I think this was the intention. Trump doesn't understand the words "honour" or "trust" everything is based on getting the best deal and if he hands Ukraine over to Russia he won't care a jot. Will the American people care though? Many won't but hopefully most will.

I don’t know foxie48. For Putin, the thought of the whole of Europe re-arming itself and prepared to stand together can’t be a comfortable position either because it will thwart his dream of regaining the USSR. It’s actually exactly what he didn’t want to happen.

For Trump this was just another financial deal. For Zelensky it was about his nation. For Europe it's turning point. Turning our faces against America.

Going back to the wording of this thread, Trump is the Putin choice.

I see ( Independent )Vance is reporting that US is working with the Russians on Ukraine plan.!

Aveline

For Trump this was just another financial deal. For Zelensky it was about his nation. For Europe it's turning point. Turning our faces against America.

Exactly .

For Putin it's a further step in recreating an expanded Russia.

I think Trump and Vance did deliberately bait Zelenskyy so that they then had an excuse to withdraw aid . I believe that the Ukrainians were given a promise of US and European defence when they gave up their nuclear weapons . Either Trump is unaware of this or has chosen to ignore it ?

I have just read an incredible speech by the Danish Prime Minister. She told Trump in no uncertain terms that Europe was onside with Zelensky and the Ukrainians.
www.kyivpost.com/post/47799

Apparently the Moscow media is talking about “our partnership” with USA .

Satisfaction with what Trump is forcing onto Zelenskyy and pleased that Putin has not had to give an inch from his original demands.