Trump Pauses Aid To Ukraine

Please stop engaging with the posters who are only in favour of Putin. They will never change their mind as someone said earlier. They are deluded

Thats no answer, Ronib.

You said Zelensky was refusing to discuss peace options, so what are they?

I am a trained social scientist and I am in no way in favour of Putin. I don’t think favouring either Z or Putin has any value. Why are you not capable of trying to dissect what is potentially a very dangerous situation? Just ask why from time to time.

How do you expect a granny in England to know what the peace options are ???

Why do so many of you want the war to continue? I don’t understand that. People die. Ukrainians and Russians and others from outside countries fighting on their behalf. The war needs to stop. Now.

Parsley3

The question that I want an answer to is this. What has made the president of the USA do everything that Putin would want? Is it as simple as Trump wanting to overturn everything that the Biden administration did? Or is Putin holding the cards in Trump's game ?

That's a very good question Parsley3 I very much doubt there will be only one answer.

Why don't you look up the thread I started under News and Politics called The History of the last 40 - 50yrs. It contained an explanation by Jeffrey Sachs.

It may not be the definitive answer you would like, but it goes part way.

Ofcourse there are many others which you may find as you research a bit more.

ronib

Z is refusing to discuss peace options. Unfortunately shame on him.

I think you will find on closer investigation that Zelinsky wants a just peace but is refusing to surrender to Putin and allow him to do as he will with the Ukraine. That would undoubtedly lead to a kind of peace, ( There used to be saying "When rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it" but it is now recognised, even by most men, that forced surrender to the lust of someone stronger and more ruthless is not an experience to be enjoyed in ecstatic relaxation)

"Peace" imposed by Putin without reciprocate terms by Ukraine herself would mean the end of the Ukraine as a country - it would become an adjunct to Russia, and a base from which Putin would continue to expand into other neighbouring countries.

ronib

I am a trained social scientist and I am in no way in favour of Putin. I don’t think favouring either Z or Putin has any value. Why are you not capable of trying to dissect what is potentially a very dangerous situation? Just ask why from time to time.

I'm grateful for your critical thinking on most subjects ronib.

It's so hard for people to give other ideas space in their minds.

Thank you namsnanny

Thank you Elegran

Namsnanny

ronib

I am a trained social scientist and I am in no way in favour of Putin. I don’t think favouring either Z or Putin has any value. Why are you not capable of trying to dissect what is potentially a very dangerous situation? Just ask why from time to time.

I'm grateful for your critical thinking on most subjects ronib.

It's so hard for people to give other ideas space in their minds.

I’m a social science graduate too, ronib. It doesn’t give us licence to cop out. What you have put forward so far does not constitute critical thinking, it presents one view, without evidence. Surely you have at least a rationale in your head, as being a social scientist you will have done some fact finding from different sources to make sure your theory holds water, and can evidence it, because that’s what we do, isn’t it? If you don’t have that, your opinion isn’t worth what no doubt Trump would call diddly. If you do, and I keep asking you, please bring it forward, then people will take your points more seriously.

Thank you Casdon

nanna8

Why do so many of you want the war to continue? I don’t understand that. People die. Ukrainians and Russians and others from outside countries fighting on their behalf. The war needs to stop. Now.

👍

You could change the sentence "Given the general hostility towards Russia from the West, it’s scarcely surprising that some form of extreme distrust is in operation." to "Given the general hostility towards the West from Russia, it’s scarcely surprising that some form of extreme distrust is in operation." and you would have the situation in both directions.

However to make the situation complete you would need to add in and Russian aggression toward any country which is no longer part of the Soviet Union and also Russian interference in elections in other countries etc.

Has anyone seen the heartbreaking clips on YouTube of young Ukrainian men being dragged, literally dragged, to go and fight?

A mother desperately pleading with military who are pulling her son out of a car? Nightclubs being raided and pulling young men to go fight the war? A chap walking his dog. A young pregnant wife pleading with them not to take her young husband?

These clips are real. We aren't seeing them in MSM. Doesn't fit the narrative.

All this desperation to continue a war that has killed a million young men.

I'm sorry. I just don't understand it.

Namsnanny

nanna8

Why do so many of you want the war to continue? I don’t understand that. People die. Ukrainians and Russians and others from outside countries fighting on their behalf. The war needs to stop. Now.

👍

It is because the expansionism of Putin's Russia (or maybe of Russia's Putin) has to stop somewhere. If the stop isn't Ukraine now, it will be another of the ex-Soviet Union countries in a year or two, and their neighbours a year or two after that.

The BBC's Russian correspondent, Steve Rosenberg, is posting a Russian press review each day. It gives an insight into Russian thoughts on the subject.

I think they are worth a look. Find them on YouTube.

ronib 80% of Ukrainians consider themselves to be citizens of Ukraine. See research evidence below:

kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=1458&t=13&page=1

Not sure where you got your evidence from that ‘one third of Ukraine considers itself Russian’?

Rula

Has anyone seen the heartbreaking clips on YouTube of young Ukrainian men being dragged, literally dragged, to go and fight?

A mother desperately pleading with military who are pulling her son out of a car? Nightclubs being raided and pulling young men to go fight the war? A chap walking his dog. A young pregnant wife pleading with them not to take her young husband?

These clips are real. We aren't seeing them in MSM. Doesn't fit the narrative.

All this desperation to continue a war that has killed a million young men.

I'm sorry. I just don't understand it.

What does the war come down to for Ukrainians? Two views.

I would rather die than live under Russian rule.

I would rather live under Russian rule than die.

I guess those I’m YouTube are the latter.

Too young to have experienced Russian rule.

Today's is pretty chilling *Flump" and tells me all I need to know about Putin's Russia!

Casdon I am not in any position to form theories on this subject but I am trying very hard to observe a rapidly changing world. Plus clearing the loft ….

Although I am not sure how you would begin to form any kind of theory from recent developments. It’s very much a work in progress.

nanna8

Why do so many of you want the war to continue? I don’t understand that. People die. Ukrainians and Russians and others from outside countries fighting on their behalf. The war needs to stop. Now.

I honestly don’t think it’s a case of anyone (on Gransnet) wanting this war or any other war to continue, it’s about doing what is right for lasting peace.

Ukraine just signing over their country to Putin and rare earth minerals to Trump is any kind of deal for Ukraine nor guarantee of last peace.

What do you want to happen nanna8.

What do you think would be best?

Wanting a just, lasting peace isn’t the same as wanting the war to continue

nanna8

Why do so many of you want the war to continue? I don’t understand that. People die. Ukrainians and Russians and others from outside countries fighting on their behalf. The war needs to stop. Now.

Would you fight if, for example, the Chinese took over Australia? Would there be any resistance or would you just say Ah well, que será, será?

I say Chinese because China is nearer to you than Russia and China is already leasing at least one island and has moved the inhabitants off. Chinese vessels are circumnavigating Australia according to news reports.