Strewth- a totally different point of view

Wyllow3

But he's just continuing to pile on the uncertainty and pressure.

That is what I think he is doing, and deliberately.

fancythat

^ but Trump needs to move quickly to avoid the ducks being rearranged to avoid his tariffs, he can’t remain at odds with the rest of the world and expect to get his own way.

^

What do you mean by this?

I mean if other countries set up alternative trading blocs to avoid paying the tariffs, which could be done, then the tariffs won’t achieve the desired effect because other countries will stop or drastically reduce trading with the USA and trade more with each other.

That is 100% what is happening IMO Casdon.

Casdon

Norah

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Markets bounce up and down all the time. Huge losses at the moment but it won’t last. It never does.

Of course it won't last, the Dow was only down 372 today.

Up down, profit taking. It'll go back up, always does.

As of the last market close, the S&P was down 16.1%, the Dow was down 13.0% and the Nasdaq was down 21.1% in Trump's second term.

True, over 6 months of ups and downs. Year on? Dow down less than 1000 points.

It's volatile. Always has been, I trade shares, some wins some losses.

Allira

escaped that reminded me of a post-referendum party we went to. 🙂

I have seen comments from several posters that FriedGreenTomatoes2 is always polite despite having differing views from the majority on here and I will agree with that, even though I may disagree with her too.

I agree. FGT2 is always polite and kind.

I disagree with some of her political posts, but I disagree with many things.

Oh well.

Iam64

He’s called all kind of things Galaxy and it’s good to know we agree on some of the actions he’s taken. I continue to feel we have a thoughtful determined person as PM in these tough times

Me too. I think we are seeing the strengths atm, no hasty rush to action or statements. Wise to consult the business community. They must have been talking endlessly about it behind closed doors tho. There is a separate thread now about allies and a very necessary move.

Hope you are feeling a bit better today Iam64 It’s a volatile world we live in just now.

Thanks nana8

Thanks imaround for your analysis of where the parties are in the USA. If Reform had infiltrated the Conservatives rather than stand as a party, we could have our own MAGA moment. Reform split the Conservative vote in my area and many others. We now have a good Labour MP but Reform is very active with stands setting up in our village centres.

The appeal of MAGA and Reform type parties is in simple answers to complex problems. Starmer’s inability to play that game is a positive imo but isn’t making him popular with Reform voters

The appeal of MAGA and Reform type parties is in simple answers to complex problems.

Exactly Iam - well said.

Not so sure that attacking globalisation and returning to national identity and individual countries is an easy task. The language which Trump uses is not sophisticated but he is attempting a reset of world trade and attempting to subvert China’s trading stronghold. Ultimately I don’t know where this leads the Uk but we are not Trump’s problem. How else would Trump accomplish this resetting of trade?

It very much remains to be seen whether Trump’s strategy will work at all ronib.

I think there's a danger that if Trump carries on down this path, globalisation will continue but with the US being peripheral to it. I don't think it's possible to return to a world that precludes it. Every great nation has been built on trade and trade prospers when it brings benefits to all parties. The Marshall Plan was designed by the US to bring Europe back to economic vitality, it also provided customers for a greatly expanded US economy. A win/win situation which helped to turn the US into the biggest economy in the world.

foxie48

I think there's a danger that if Trump carries on down this path, globalisation will continue but with the US being peripheral to it. I don't think it's possible to return to a world that precludes it. Every great nation has been built on trade and trade prospers when it brings benefits to all parties. The Marshall Plan was designed by the US to bring Europe back to economic vitality, it also provided customers for a greatly expanded US economy. A win/win situation which helped to turn the US into the biggest economy in the world.

We've traded for millennia. Hence the names of some of our routes, our geographical phenomena. The Silk Road, the Spice Route etc, Trade Winds which were the winds taking goods to and from the Americas.

Trump seems to want to head towards isolationism.

Not too sure what Trump’s motivation is but decreasing the financial clout of China must be on his list?

Allira

foxie48

I think there's a danger that if Trump carries on down this path, globalisation will continue but with the US being peripheral to it. I don't think it's possible to return to a world that precludes it. Every great nation has been built on trade and trade prospers when it brings benefits to all parties. The Marshall Plan was designed by the US to bring Europe back to economic vitality, it also provided customers for a greatly expanded US economy. A win/win situation which helped to turn the US into the biggest economy in the world.

We've traded for millennia. Hence the names of some of our routes, our geographical phenomena. The Silk Road, the Spice Route etc, Trade Winds which were the winds taking goods to and from the Americas.

Trump seems to want to head towards isolationism.

Trump seems to want to head towards isolationism.

Indeed.

ASPI 21 January 2025

"Trump subscribes to a brand of isolationism that has waxed and waned throughout US history, but has its roots in the Monroe Doctrine. In 1823, America’s fifth president, James Monroe, declared that the United States would not intervene in the affairs of European countries (or their colonies and dependencies), and warned those countries not to interfere in the western hemisphere, such as through colonisation. Any breach of this line by a European power would be viewed as a hostile act against the US.

Trump confirmed his adherence to the Monroe Doctrine in a 2018 speech at the United Nations. This position is undoubtedly linked to the US-China competition: Trump wants to deter the US’s global rival from interfering in the US’s near-abroad."

Interesting, Norah.

What did Monroe consider to be the Western Hemisphere?
I thought it included most of the British Isles, part of France, Spain, Portugal, also part of Africa?
Anything west of Greenwich.

Trump has warned against Canada joining with Europe and others. That isn't in his best interests.
There are talks with India that has had a 46% tariff imposed by Trump.
The UK may be interested in trade with them as it would be cheaper for India than paying Trump's tariffs.

Very interesting stuff, Norah. It does feel as if Trump is heading backwards clinging to what is basically no longer possible in this very global world. -like it or not thats what we've got.

Allira

Interesting, Norah.

What did Monroe consider to be the Western Hemisphere?
I thought it included most of the British Isles, part of France, Spain, Portugal, also part of Africa?
Anything west of Greenwich.

I'm not a historian. I've not read Monroe's tactual houghts. Seems as if POTUS does speak fondly of the 1800s in America.

Trade has been global for at least the last 5,000 years. But in the past the cost and difficulties of transport meant that individual countries could have a varied well balanced home industrial sector, while benefiting from the advantages of trade.

Nowadays transport is cheap and easy and home industries no longer have the protection high transport costs provide.

When Stalin was undertaking the reorganisation of Russian agriculture he made every republic within the union completely destroy its existing farming system in order to grow one or two allocated crops. Ukraine, for example to this day has two main crpes - wheat and sunflowers. Uzbekistan grows almost entirely cotton.

By doing this Stalin ensured that it was very difficult for any republic to try to go independent, because its agriculture was a monoculture, it would take years before it could begin to feed its people without importing much of their food from other republics.

We are in danger of doing this now to individual countries. Were China to decide to no longer supply the world as whole or even individual countries with electronic parts and devices that country would grind to a halt, because they cannot get them from anywhere else.

I am not arguing for a protectionism, but there is a happy medium between unfettered free trade, which despite being under the supervision of the World Trade organisation (WTO), is effectively what we have now, big boys do well, small boys do not, but i do think there needs to be a far more nuanced attitude.

nanna8

We were just sat with a couple of American medical doctors who were avid Trump supporters. They didn’t understand why there is so much opposition to him in the rest of the world. They said he had got rid of a lot of people who did no work but got paid for their services in government circles and that they had witnessed all the waste within government health services and other departments themselves ( didn’t know they had any to be honest, thought it was all private health there). It was interesting to hear that they thought he would save America. They also said the Ukraine is one of the most corrupt regimes in the world (!!) involved with many worldwide illegal trading including that of young girls . Who to believe? They were clearly sensible high achievers. I said Trump may be good for the US but a disaster for everyone else. They didn’t like that at all.

Even "high achievers" in the States struggle with free thinking and reflection. They may well be highly trained to do their job, they're not trained to research different perspectives.

I couldn’t have put it better myself, I’m not a Trump supporter however my thinking now is that he needs to be given a chance, the last incumbent I found rather scary, my instinct tells me he wants the best for his country, I love his support for Israel too.

We are in trouble in this country and will be in even bigger trouble as the years pass. Why? Because in this country you are 'educated to be told what to think, rather than how to think'.

Are you speaking for yourself love0c? I don’t know anybody who has been educated to be told what they think in this country, everybody exercises their free will in questioning history, politics, and the status quo, and have never been stopped from doing so.

love0c

We are in trouble in this country and will be in even bigger trouble as the years pass. Why? Because in this country you are 'educated to be told what to think, rather than how to think'.

What a strange opinion, in my opinion.
Maybe you could give some concrete and logical examples to support your statement.