Grooming gangs. Labour absolutely stink

Wyllow3

I've given the reference to Hansard, where all that was said is perfectly clear to see. And available to journalists.

Thank you, I have also seen clips from the H of C’s debate.

Do you understand how many organisations must have deep seated failings and an organisational culture that us unspeakable to allow that 'social worker' episode to happen. If you read the BBC story ( if that makes you happier) on that issue you can see that something drove her to go against her very real concerns about what was happening.

Maggie Oliver is my go to for information on the grooming gangs, she is by far the most knowledgeable.

Hansard is word for word the sources material for all the articles in different newspapers as its a record of what was exactly said in the H of C.

We all rarely get the chance to go back and read the source of what is then cherry picked and we comment on the cherry picked. And the positive new measures outlined as well as the injuries.

We can then make up our own minds about issues at hand.

Can I just also point out that the Jay report came out in October 2022.
It did lead to some exposure of the coverups and slow action on the crimes, but since that report there have been calls for additional exposure of those alleged to have covered up/slowed down.

The Conservative government of the time did take action post Jay in setting up much more focussed police units but it did not respond in anyway to frequent calls for additional enquiries. Why doesn't that "stink" too?

Wyllwow3 of course Conservatives slow response stinks too

It just so happens that it’s Labour in control now.

Correct to typo above - inquiries not injuries

(Just to be clear I definitely do think btw that failures to properly investigate should be called out and inquiries should attempt to reveal them.)

Does the OP assume those who support Labour also favour tip toeing around criminals and abusers?

Really?

Where has op said that. Have I missed it?

glasshalffullagain

Does the OP assume those who support Labour also favour tip toeing around criminals and abusers?

Really?

I’m a Labour supporter.
You wouldn’t want to see inside my head where the ideas are of what I would do to these scum.

The Labour Party’s position on Isreal Palestine has lost the party swathes of support from the Muslim Community
The actions of Starmer and Nazir Afzal at the CPS ensured the first prosecutions of the men in those so called grooming gangs
But let’s not allow reality to get in the way of Outrage

Exactly, Iam.

And the idea that exposing rape and grooming would lose Muslim support is outrageous. Do people who believe that know any Muslims? I don't know a single Muslim who would withdraw their vote from a party who exposed such behaviour, and find the casual stereotyping offensive.

Would those suggesting that political support from the Muslim community would be withdrawn because of prosecutions for such behaviour withdraw their own vote from a party who exposed white/Christian/older/heterosexual/insert other appropriate groups to which they belong? If not, why do you think that Muslims would do so, and more importantly what is it that makes you think like that?

Of course rapists and groomers should be exposed and prosecuted. That is a given. It is also the case that heavy-handed policing of part of a community can lead (rightly or wrongly) to accusations of discrimination and racism, so sensitive situations need to be handled with care. Not brushed under the carpet or shied away from, but consideration has to be given to community relations if investigators are to get public co-operation.

I would say that sensitivity to the feelings of others is always always a disaster to women and girls. I think a policy based on that is exactly what may have influenced the practice of those social workers.

This article from 2017 explores what you discuss, Doodledog (its from Newcastle where there were not accusations of cover ups, but does deal with the realities)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grooming-gang-newcastle-asian-pakistani-bangladeshi-muslim-response-faith-leaders-operation-shelter-police-convictions-a7888946.html

Galaxy

I would say that sensitivity to the feelings of others is always always a disaster to women and girls. I think a policy based on that is exactly what may have influenced the practice of those social workers.

Which is why the new set of proposals include local Victims Panels, and "a child protection authority will be created to address one of the central recommendations of IICSA, as well asdoubling funding for national services which support adult survivors of child sexual abuse".
Phillips made clear funding will include "full independent local inquiries". (all from Hansard)

If those panels etc are afflicted by the same culture of shh we must be careful not to hurt the feelings of the men then they will be of no use to women and children, in the same way that many safeguarding organisatios nodded along with the previous safeguarding calamity.

I first became aware of child sexual exploitation of vulnerable children by men of large,y Pakistani Muslim heritage in 1998. The social workers involved that I knew were in the main anxious and pushing managers and the police to investigate. I could say more about that but ……..

What I will stress is that in various meetings, informal/formal discussions I met no-one saying we couldn’t investigate for fear of offending the Muslim community.

I agree. The abused victims and in general the abuse of women and children should be at the heart of our considerations and no shhh about it. Getting communities on board doesnt per se preclude this.

(I was replying to Galaxy)

Galaxy

If those panels etc are afflicted by the same culture of shh we must be careful not to hurt the feelings of the men then they will be of no use to women and children, in the same way that many safeguarding organisatios nodded along with the previous safeguarding calamity.

I don't think it was about not hurting the feelings of the men. It was more about not rushing headlong into something that could inflame strained community relations, which is not the same thing at all, and has nothing to do with anyone's voting intentions.

Wyllow3

I have had to deal with this accusation earlier today on another forum.

Lies.

The local inquiries have not been cancelled. It was a press release put out by the Conservative Party. Initially Katie Lam (Conservative Shadow Safeguarding minister)

criticised the lack of progress and later that day the C party put out a press release accusing Labour of cancelling.

The Home Office has released a £5 million national fund not just for Independent Local Enquires but to build local victims panels and other regular local audits. The idea being not just to look back but to build for the future to prevent repeats. This full programme of measures, which also includes further support on the police front, is to be announced in May

It's all in Hansard dated yesterday word for word

dont believe all you read in the Tory press when its half the news - the tory accusations.

Well said Wyllow3 the Tory press are unscrupulous in the way they report things and need calling out.

I'll remember to quote Hansard to a certain relative who believes everything the Tory press puts out and listens to online speakers who have right wing views

Iam64

I first became aware of child sexual exploitation of vulnerable children by men of large,y Pakistani Muslim heritage in 1998. The social workers involved that I knew were in the main anxious and pushing managers and the police to investigate. I could say more about that but ……..

What I will stress is that in various meetings, informal/formal discussions I met no-one saying we couldn’t investigate for fear of offending the Muslim community.

But with respect, that was 1998 or near then.

Times changed drastically.

Doodledog

Galaxy

If those panels etc are afflicted by the same culture of shh we must be careful not to hurt the feelings of the men then they will be of no use to women and children, in the same way that many safeguarding organisatios nodded along with the previous safeguarding calamity.

I don't think it was about not hurting the feelings of the men. It was more about not rushing headlong into something that could inflame strained community relations, which is not the same thing at all, and has nothing to do with anyone's voting intentions.

"Strained communtiy relations" comes before any other consideration/decision made?

I think we are exacerbating problems with community relations by not having those discussions, and yes they are hard discussions and require courage. And again the priority is not the feelings of a community (how familiar this all sounds) but the safeguarding of children. You know how the Democrats wrapped up the present of trans rights and handed it to Trump, there is a risk of that happening here except with Reform and this issue.

Wyllow3

I have had to deal with this accusation earlier today on another forum.

Lies.

The local inquiries have not been cancelled. It was a press release put out by the Conservative Party. Initially Katie Lam (Conservative Shadow Safeguarding minister)

criticised the lack of progress and later that day the C party put out a press release accusing Labour of cancelling.

The Home Office has released a £5 million national fund not just for Independent Local Enquires but to build local victims panels and other regular local audits. The idea being not just to look back but to build for the future to prevent repeats. This full programme of measures, which also includes further support on the police front, is to be announced in May

It's all in Hansard dated yesterday word for word

dont believe all you read in the Tory press when its half the news - the tory accusations.

👏👏👏👏👏