Trans women and single-sex spaces

Syracute

So annoying that there are two threads on this subject . At the days end no one will police this . The trans community will continue to use the spaces that suit their visible gender . What is anyone here going to do about this

Two people mentioned the upcoming Supreme Court case on this thread and we're ignored. That's why l started the other thread. The implications are far wider than single sex spacee and deserves it's own thread. Sorry its annoyed you, not.

Was anyone brought to justice for that case? Or was there a different outcome that is being hidden? The responses are not making any sense to me.

Luminance

Lathyrus3

I note that your query is for the outcome for the transgender rapist rather than for the outcome for the victim.

No prosecution or sentence can assuage the trauma suffered by the victim, both in the Rape itself and the subsequent insistence that no rape could have happened because there was no male in the ward.

So I am curious as to why you think this is the important factor in this case.

I simply wanted to know if someone were brought to justice. What an awful thing to say about someone else who has never given any reason for it.

What awful thing have I said?

I simply stated a fact that you were focused on the outcome for the rapist. Which you were.

I consider it a personal attack that you have posted that I said an awful thing about you when it is clearly untrue.

Again, I must ask, was there justice done in this case? I have not been able to trace the outcome and I would like to know if justice was served.

Luminance

Again, I must ask, was there justice done in this case? I have not been able to trace the outcome and I would like to know if justice was served.

Google will supply you with the answers you need.
How you define justice is not something I know.

For any victim of such a heinous crime I would hope justice was served. I simply want to know if it led to an arrest and conviction and if the sentence was fitting?

Luminance

For any victim of such a heinous crime I would hope justice was served. I simply want to know if it led to an arrest and conviction and if the sentence was fitting?

Google will supply you with the answer you need. Only you know whether you would consider the sentence to be fitting, so I’m sorry I can’t help.

I have not been able to find anything so I was rather hoping that since the topic was brought to this thread, someone might have seen the outcome. I am not sure any sentence is enough for crimes like that really but they do seem to carry a variation in time in court.

Luminance

Was anyone brought to justice for that case? Or was there a different outcome that is being hidden? The responses are not making any sense to me.

As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a court case yet. Perhaps you're unaware of the very large backlog of cases still awaiting coming to trial? It runs to years, not weeks or months. The certainty in this case is that the hospital gaslit a woman for a year because they maintained she couldn't have been raped as there were no men on the women's ward. They finally admitted there was a transwoman, a fully intact male, who had been on that ward because he identified as a woman. Whether the CPS can establish enough evidence of the actual rape I don't know, but everybody must be aware that very few rapes make it to court and even fewer result in conviction.
This comment that maybe an 'outcome' is being hidden suggests you think there is something to hide other than the intentional mistreatment of the victim.

I am deeply sorry for anyone who read that story in the news and were distressed by it but I did find the answer. I will place it here.

skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/55782/did-uk-hospital-tell-the-police-that-a-patient-was-not-raped-because-the-alleged

There is this case that happened shortly before Baroness Nicholson's speech but it does not involve trans people. I will leave it here.

www.eadt.co.uk/news/health/21265906.hospital-apologises-staff-said-sex-assault-patient-didnt-happen/

OldFrill

That many are abused by many, and few are abused by few does not lessen the abuse.
Might need a formal logician. But get my gist. All these arguments that are being put forward by Glasweegran are the shaped responses fed to SNP supporters by extreme minority groups, that's what got Scotgov to the Supreme Court for yet another court defeat funded by the taxpayer.
The Supreme Court gave clarity and told Scotgov it cannot define woman to suit itself. The SNP is now a minority government that has completely forgotten its purpose - Independence.

You are right, it does not lessen the abuse, as I said, it's a horrible case, but it does raise the question, which was my point, as to why isolated cases should require a sledgehammer solution, where as far more prevalent cases don't seem to.
You have a group that is described in the text of the judgement as a feminist group working for the rights and safety of women and girls, and then you look at that group more closely and find that it's a limited company who has never done anything apart for argue against trans rights, then you have to wonder, if women's safety is their primary goal, then where is their campaign against domestic violence because that is several hundred thousand times more likely to affect a woman than any danger from a trans woman. (That is not hyperbole either, that is likely an underestimation of the risk)
Then you have to wonder who is being fed "shaped responses" by shady extremist groups, groups that seem to have bottomless pits of money with no apparent source that keep their court cases going.
Just because the SNP refused to throw trans people under the bus for political expediency does not mean their main policy is forgotten, (that sounds like you've been listening to Alba, set up by a man who admitted terrible behavior to women and can't win a raffle far less an elected seat at any level, so not exactly speaking for the people) ... but this was also policy. And it was the Westminster GRA 2004 that said transwomen are women, not the Scottish Government, and it still does say that... which is why this judement is just going to cause more problems with a mismatch in interpretation of two different bits of law. You could read the full judgement and see what it says, it's 88 pages of boring, but it's all in there.

Obviously I should add that the safety of patients is paramount to myself. There have been too many cases in hospitals which should always be the safest place for vulnerable people and it is so appalling when failures happen.

The case in question stalled because, as stated in the article Luminance posted, there was disagreement over whether the violation was rape or assault.

The CPS was doubtful of a rape conviction because of the prevailing trans ideology at the time and advised a charge of assault. The defence would be that the violation was carried out by a woman and therefore not rape but assault and as likely to succeed.

The victim would not agree and the case was not brought to court. the victim was advised that she would have to make a private case if she insisted on a rape charge. Her mental and financial state such that she was unable to do that.

Now that there is clarity, that the rapists was indeed a man and not a woman, I hope that the police and and the COS will review the case immediately so that justice can indeed be served.

I wish some of the people here would follow a few transgender folks on social media to gain insight . It’s horrible to demonize this whole subject. Reading some of the comments here I realize how absolutely ignorant most are here and I thank those deeply who give an alternative viewpoint like Glaswee gran .

Lathyrus3

The case in question stalled because, as stated in the article Luminance posted, there was disagreement over whether the violation was rape or assault.

The CPS was doubtful of a rape conviction because of the prevailing trans ideology at the time and advised a charge of assault. The defence would be that the violation was carried out by a woman and therefore not rape but assault and as likely to succeed.

The victim would not agree and the case was not brought to court. the victim was advised that she would have to make a private case if she insisted on a rape charge. Her mental and financial state such that she was unable to do that.

Now that there is clarity, that the rapists was indeed a man and not a woman, I hope that the police and and the COS will review the case immediately so that justice can indeed be served.

Could you link me to the source so that I may read it because what I posted suggested that there was some obvious confusion and no trans people were ever involved in such that case.

Luminance

Lathyrus3

The case in question stalled because, as stated in the article Luminance posted, there was disagreement over whether the violation was rape or assault.

The CPS was doubtful of a rape conviction because of the prevailing trans ideology at the time and advised a charge of assault. The defence would be that the violation was carried out by a woman and therefore not rape but assault and as likely to succeed.

The victim would not agree and the case was not brought to court. the victim was advised that she would have to make a private case if she insisted on a rape charge. Her mental and financial state such that she was unable to do that.

Now that there is clarity, that the rapists was indeed a man and not a woman, I hope that the police and and the COS will review the case immediately so that justice can indeed be served.

Could you link me to the source so that I may read it because what I posted suggested that there was some obvious confusion and no trans people were ever involved in such that case.

The link you provided to skeptics.stackexchange.com/ is not an official or even checked website. It is individuals posting for approval of their own individual viewpoints. Not that dissimilar to GN and no more guaranteed to be accurate or accountable. I wonder why you give it so much credence? Could it be the link you connected to endorsed your preferred view of the situation?
Luminance you may find this painful but the facts are transpeople will encompass the full range of human behaviours and that includes being liars, cheats and downright vile people, just like anybody who isn't transgender.

Syracute

I wish some of the people here would follow a few transgender folks on social media to gain insight . It’s horrible to demonize this whole subject. Reading some of the comments here I realize how absolutely ignorant most are here and I thank those deeply who give an alternative viewpoint like Glaswee gran .

Oh I have Syracute , for some time, both before and since the day.

Including some who are desperately unhappy with the surgery or chemical treatment they have had because it hasn’t sorted out their problems and has left them in pain.

Including some who are horrified at the way they are all portrayed because of the actions of the few.

Including some who are as relieved about the ruling as most women are.

Sadly also including those who are going to fight this stupidity to the end and who say,
“If you think a (*use your imagination expletive*) court can stop us, you’ve got another expletive think coming.”

Absolutely not Rosie51 I found it quite by accident because there was nothing else to find. I rather hope it was an accidental mistake or misunderstanding but I have read in the past that the story came from one known to make racist and homophobic comments online.

I think that we do need to continue to use legal redress to ensure that organisations interpret the equality act correctly. As can be seem there are people who will always prioritise the feelings of men. They will be present in organisations and we need to be prepared to challenge them.
Obviously my funding from the extremist far right groups will help with this 🤦‍♀️

There are more than just 'isolated cases', even here in Scotland, and a bit of research will show you that. I repeat, I know some trans people and I have a couple of friends with trans children - they just want to go about their daily lives and get along with everyone. If only everyone was the same.
Unfortunately, there is a very vocal and militant trans body who have clearly stated that they will ignore the Supreme Court ruling and are hurling insults, abuse and even death threats to 'terfs'. These people do their cause no help at all - quite the reverse, in fact.

Ridiculous thing to do !
Now it is 2x hate mongering

What are you on about?

Clearly you are cherry picking for your own sad hate narrative .

Who are you talking to?