Trans women and single-sex spaces

Sex matters have produced some really clear guidance on the supreme Court judgement, it is I think worth reading.

Doodledog I wasn't speaking of patients there and I have decided it rather for the best not to mention that again if that is ok. What I was speaking of is women I personally know who have been told their were anxious as if that is something they ought to live with. I find it terribly frustrating. I feel it best to at the very least find out what the cause is to treat it appropriately and to also check physical health for causes.

Syracute

Hopefully the new ruling will keep out those TW who have caused the problems, but I doubt it.

This time it will be TW objecting to some TW being allowed to break the rule and I suspect they and TRA will be monitoring this quite closely.

To give an exemplar, I’ve seen this happen in school, when a rule has been applied that said No children allowed indoors at playtime.
That was fine until a neurodiverse child was allowed to be indoors at playtime with the TA, and even more shocking, another child was allowed to be there with him to try and develop social skills.
Then some children and their parents were up in arms about the perceived unfair treatment.

As for your Who will be policing this?

Soooo Déjà vu.

It shouldn’t need to be policed.

Will you be happy if much needed resources are taken from elsewhere to police those men who feel they have the right to contravene a rule just because it protects females?

Why does anything need to be policed?
Because some people think the law/rules don't apply to them.

TransAction have already said they will not abide by this law.
This will cause more work for law enforcement which is already stretched.
Time will tell how this will work out but I think TRAs will carry on causing trouble. They have been thwarted and some are imo dangerous men.

Luminance

A trans woman who has been living unknown and unobtrusively cannot walk into the men's if it puts them at risk from those who see them do so surely?

Syracute's husband has assured us that plenty of women use the male toilets when there's a queue for the women's and the men don't bat an eye, so it would seem there's been no risk to women or transwomen using male toilets.

Thanks for reminding me of that point from Syracute’s post Rosie51

That does rather assume everyone would feel that way.

Luminance

That does rather assume everyone would feel that way.

Well yes, but your references to doctors you have spoken to and women you know personally make the same assumptions, no?

I would imagine that the women using single sex spaces would complain to the management if they discovered a transwoman using the facilities.
As for these trans people who have lived undetected for years: really? Do they really think people don't know?
Do they not realize that actually, people are generally sympathetic because those trans people are swift, discreet, do not linger and are not seen as a threat. Dr. Watson has a great deal to answer for.
I am talking about the brief use of facilities such as lavatories and possibly cubicles at the swimming baths, not wards, prisons, sleeping arrangements in hostels.

Maybe it wont be the trans people who make brief use of facilities you mention, and have in the past been treated sympathetically that will be complained about eazybee.

Doodledog I think that who you spend time with probably does have influence over your thoughts and opinions on things. Simply though, hearing from doctors they believe in a biological reason for gender dysphoria has influenced my thinking at least enough to be open to the idea.

Really, Luminance . . .
As if you’re the only person who is open to the idea of gender dysphoria vs not open to the idea of gender dysphoria?
Where has anyone on here said they’re not open to the idea?
Do you think all TIM are suffering from gender dysphoria.
Since we know very little about who GNs actually spend time with it would be difficult to extrapolate any definite conclusions about how much real knowledge of GD anyone, even you, has.

We may be talking at cross purposes here? I googled reasons for gender dysphoria and it gave

"While the exact causes of gender dysphoria remain complex and not fully understood, research suggests that a combination of biological factors, including hormonal and genetic influences, play a role"

but the point of the law is not whether the above goes towards making someone trans, it doesnt alter the law as regards being born biologically male or female physically.

I was addressing Luminance

^Simply though, hearing from doctors they believe in a biological reason for gender dysphoria

Dr Az Hakeem, the clinical psychologist that I referred to yesterday, doesn't agree with that statement at all. You really need to read or listen to him; he makes some very good observations regarding the many trans patients he's seen. Widen your horizons, step out of your comfort zone and maybe you'll learn something new.

26% of my patients are post-operative regretters: this 26% of course does not represent the demographic of Gender Dysphoric patents but was the demographic of the people who had been referred to my service.

I have a friend who is trans, used to phone me and kids would shout Mummy it’s that woman who’s a man !!!

Mollygo

Syracute

Hopefully the new ruling will keep out those TW who have caused the problems, but I doubt it.

This time it will be TW objecting to some TW being allowed to break the rule and I suspect they and TRA will be monitoring this quite closely.

To give an exemplar, I’ve seen this happen in school, when a rule has been applied that said No children allowed indoors at playtime.
That was fine until a neurodiverse child was allowed to be indoors at playtime with the TA, and even more shocking, another child was allowed to be there with him to try and develop social skills.
Then some children and their parents were up in arms about the perceived unfair treatment.

As for your Who will be policing this?

Soooo Déjà vu.

It shouldn’t need to be policed.

Will you be happy if much needed resources are taken from elsewhere to police those men who feel they have the right to contravene a rule just because it protects females?

Why does anything need to be policed?
Because some people think the law/rules don't apply to them.

I am happy for these women to break these laws . I will support them because they are women . I find this thread more threatening than any potential occurence of perceived danger in a toilet or wherever ….

Carlotta

^Simply though, hearing from doctors they believe in a biological reason for gender dysphoria

Dr Az Hakeem, the clinical psychologist that I referred to yesterday, doesn't agree with that statement at all. You really need to read or listen to him; he makes some very good observations regarding the many trans patients he's seen. Widen your horizons, step out of your comfort zone and maybe you'll learn something new.

^26% of my patients are post-operative regretters: this 26% of course does not represent the demographic of Gender Dysphoric patents but was the demographic of the people who had been referred to my service.^

So the vast majority were happy.

What you feel and what you do will make no difference to the supreme courts ruling.

Surely just one person having drug treatment that causes irreversible effects and having radical surgery to get their tackle chopped off and then regretting it is one person too many Syracute? Or maybe you think it's worth the risk; who knows 🙅‍♂️. Read what Az Hakeem has to say before you judge; he just might make you look at the issue in a different light.

And that says it all about you, Syracute.
This is nothing to do with sympathy, or concern for some.

Clearly

You think it’s right to choose which rules you or those you support should obey.

You choose to support those who lie when the lies are to the detriment of women.

Thank you for the clarification.

I am happy for these women to break these laws . I will support them because they are women . I find this thread more threatening than any potential occurence of perceived danger in a toilet or wherever ….

Who is being threatened by whom?

I would really like to know what has been said on this thread that you find threatening.

Carlotta I have already been drawn well outside my comfort zone with all opinions but I do like to try and keep an open mind.

I think we all do, so you're in good company .

Well then you'll find Dr Hakeem very interesting I'm sure Luminance; an open mind is always good.