Trans women and single-sex spaces

How times change - Teresa May supported aspects of self ID in 2017 as debates continued in the then government on the GRA and talked about trans rights.

Yes, expectations were created but of course no one then imagined the rise of the very aggressive group of men using the situation and the debate trying to "prove" biological changes. So much pain and damage.

But it remains, expectations were created which is why I think trans people do need clarification in the guidance about what they can do as opposed to what they can't do.

Galaxy

I wonder if it is about to end the career of Maggie Chapman, we should keep some sort of record of the politicians and organisations that it has destroyed.

Why would you want to do that?

If anti-abortionists aren't permitted to peacefully hold placards and silently pray within a certain distance of clinics then surely the same 'exclusion zone' policy could be applied to toilets?

Excellent point.

So that we can learn from this debacle. It might also act as a warning to politicians etc not to chant mantras without using some critical thinking.
We don't actually need a list we are very well aware of the politicians and organisations that failed, and those who showed bravery.

LizzieDrip

Galaxy

I wonder if it is about to end the career of Maggie Chapman, we should keep some sort of record of the politicians and organisations that it has destroyed.

Why would you want to do that?

Its up to the Green Party and the constituents?

Mollygo

^It’s not a victory for an increase in unpleasant actions against trans people. We will not tolerate that.^
But will they tolerate the increase in unpleasant actions against women?

Standing outside women's toilets with placards .....well apparently noone can stand outside abortion clinics and pray so how come it's ok to stand with placards outside womens toilets? What is supposed to be the difference I wonder

What is supposed to be the difference I wonder

Isn't it obvious? Only women can have abortions so they need to stop their demonstrations, sit down and stop making a fuss. But when it's the menz who are demonstrating outside toilets or anywhere else that's OK. Because they're male.

You won’t know they are there .

Syracute

You won’t know they are there .

Are these men invisible?

Yes it will be up to the green party, they may want to look at how disastrous ot has been for others, I am just watching the debacle with disbelief.

Mollygo

^The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages.^

Syracute, but you have gone back to the dark ages, where men decided what women could or could not have or do.

Choosing to support males to break rules designed to protect females is a strange view of democracy.

You have said you will choose which rules you won’t follow because you don’t like them. Definitely a Trump behaviour.

The problem is that it makes Trump untrustworthy. Who knows what rules he, or others who are picky about rules will also choose not to apply?

I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well .

Syracute

Mollygo

The whole subject is ridiculous . Let’s not go back to the dark ages.

Syracute, but you have gone back to the dark ages, where men decided what women could or could not have or do.

Choosing to support males to break rules designed to protect females is a strange view of democracy.

You have said you will choose which rules you won’t follow because you don’t like them. Definitely a Trump behaviour.

The problem is that it makes Trump untrustworthy. Who knows what rules he, or others who are picky about rules will also choose not to apply?

I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well .

The law as clarified (which shouldn't have been needed) by the Supreme Court of the UK says transwomen are not women. If by transgender women you mean females who present as males then you're quite correct, they are women.

Syracute Apart from being the law it is biological fact that there are two sexes which are immutable. How any woman can deny her own sex is beyond me, pandering to the patriarchy just takes us back to grim times. You'll be advocating for scold's bridles next to shut up those mouthy dissenters.

Going forward, I hope ‘chest feeding’ and ‘birthing person’ etc is outlawed now in hospitals.. Also I am a woman NOT a c!s woman - that really offends me.

Syracute
I am talking about women , all women . Transgender women as well.

What does that actually mean?

Transgender if you mean TW are not women, no matter how untruthfully it is claimed that they are.

Transgender, if you mean Transmen are female. So . . .
The ruling is, that only females are
women. It shouldn’t have been necessary except for the lies which have become common place among some.

You’ve already said that you support men breaking the rule, rather than supporting females, so what is your post
supposed to mean?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Going forward, I hope ‘chest feeding’ and ‘birthing person’ etc is outlawed now in hospitals.. Also I am a woman NOT a c!s woman - that really offends me.

Oh, I think those definitions will and should be one of the first things to go. Medically speaking of course it is necessary to know if someone is transgender, that's a different matter. Never liked or supported the idea I should be labelled a cis women.

Syracute

You won’t know they are there .

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

Madgran77

Syracute
You won’t know they are there.

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

But Madgran77, some might be female TRA who think it’s right to ignore the rule and encourage males who want to break the rule.
We have seen on here that they exist.

Mollygo

Madgran77

Syracute
You won’t know they are there.

Um if you mean those standing outside toilets with placards then it would be very hard not to know they are there!

But Madgran77, some might be female TRA who think it’s right to ignore the rule and encourage males who want to break the rule.
We have seen on here that they exist.

I don't understand your point Mollygo.

Yes I expect at least some of them are. But whichever they are if they ate standing there with placards one is hardly going to "not know they are there"!

They’ve vandalised Brian Clough’s statue in Nottingham. Why???

Madgran77
The only point I’m making is that it isn’t only TW or other males who are waving placards, but also women.
They shouldn’t be there, any of them, but it’s disappointing to find women supporting males agains females.

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Mollygo

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Because they look no different than you and me !

Syracute

Mollygo

Seems Nadia Whittome agrees that men can be dangerous, since even she feels transwomen would feel unsafe in toilets where men are.

Because they look no different than you and me !

Well, I'm not sure what you look like Syracute but I can assure you I look nothing like Eddie Izzard, who now identifies as a transwoman having been confused about his identity for decades and has adopted the name Suzy.

Nor me Allira! I may not be an oil painting but I look nothing like Izzard, Isla Bryson, Alex Drummond, Tickle the 'transwoman' in Australia et al. Syracute it is disingenuous of you to even vaguely suggest that transwomen look like biological women when with very few exceptions who have had major feminising surgeries costing many, many thousands of pounds they absolutely don't.