Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

I don't think the issue lies with transmen (women who want to be men). They don't seem to be particularly vocal or militant. At least, not that I've read about. They also don't have male genitalia.

Luminance I'm not at all sure why you're so affronted by the term Jock in a frock? RuPaul's Drag Race tv programme has, since 2012 at least, had a section specially called Jocks in Frocks which is for "The queens must transform a group of All-American straight jocks into their drag sisters." If it's a term openly used within the trans/drag community, why are you struggling with it?

Behind-the-scenes drama and exclusive unseen footage from Jocks in Frocks. The queens dish the dirt on the jocks they transformed in this week's challenge.

flappergirl

I don't think the issue lies with transmen (women who want to be men). They don't seem to be particularly vocal or militant. At least, not that I've read about. They also don't have male genitalia.

They don't. Or male hormones, socialisation or conditioning.

They have female bodies, which may heave been modified by medication or even surgery, but on the whole they are not dangerous to others.

Trans people are not drag queens.

Luminance

Trans people are not drag queens.

Excuse me! Many transgender people include drag queens under the trans umbrella. I think you're assuming rather a lot appointing yourself as spokesperson for transgender people even if you may be transgender yourself, which of course you have no obligation to declare..

They are distinct groups which you ought to know. Both facing discrimination sadly.

Trans people are not drag queens

But these drag queens are transgender:

Trinity K. Bonet (Drag Race season 6)
Jinkx Monsoon (Drag Race season 5)
Adore Delano (Drag Race season 6)
Eureka (Drag Race season 9 and 10)
Detox (Drag Race season 5)
Carmen Carrera (Drag Race season 2)
Stacy Layne Mathews (Drag Race season 3)
Lashauwn Beyond (Drag Race season 4)
Jiggly Caliente (Drag Race season 4)
Kenya Michaels (Drag Race season 4)
Monica Beverly Hillz (Drag Race season 5)
Laganja Estranga (Drag Race season 6)
Gia Gunn (Drag Race season 6)
Aja (Drag Race season 9)
Gigi Goode (Drag Race season 12)
Willow Pill (Drag Race season 14)
Jasmine Kennedie (Drag Race season 13,)
Farrah Moan (Drag Race season 9)
Amethyst (Drag Race season 15)
Kornbread (Drag Race season 14)
Kylie Sonique Love (Drag Race season 2)
Peppermint (Drag Race season 9)
Kelly Mantle (Drag Race season 6)
Bosco (Drag Race season 14)
Amanda Tori Meeting (Drag Race season 16)
Dax ExclamationPoint (Drag Race season 8)
Trinity the Tuck (Drag Race season 9)
Jade Jolie (Drag Race season 5)
Valentina (Drag Race season 9)

29 unoffended people, But you've decided, on their behalf, that they should be. Away with you!

As I understand it, all groups under the trans umbrella align with each other. Are you saying they each have different priorities and objectives. What discrimination do drag queens face? Are they subject to different laws than non-drag queens?

Oh well done Carlotta I hadn't refreshed the page. I wonder if Luminance is capable of embarrassment or humility.....

Is this a logic puzzle? Some apples are pears so all apples must be pears? This is bordering rather strongly on the ridiculous now. I asked if people were happy for trans people to keep their protections and live a life free from discrimination and harassment and the responses are purely strange. I count one person who has answered with clarity that they were. I wish people would just speak the truth of how they feel about trans people, I would respect that over the waste of everyone's time comments here.

Then stop conflating your questions with ridiculous generalised dictats, about a wholly diverse community, with statements such as Trans people are not drag queens. Some are. Some are not. Some transgender people are quiet, law abiding, decent folk who just want to get on with their day to day life. Some don't; they want to agitate, disrupt and create division. And they've caused great harm and distrust between women and trans communities that will take a long time to recover from. This has been explained to you several times already but fails to satisfy you. No one is obliged to answer your questions to your satisfaction so, if you've received one satisfactory answer; be happy with it.

Mollygo

Therein lies a difficulty.

What trans rights Luminance, PN et al are you saying there is no support for?

I am asking again, because so far there has been a lot of accusations, but no clarification.

The only transrights we ever hear of in the news is where TW want to cheat by entering female sports, or lie their way into female safe spaces.

So it would be really useful to know from those with more expertise like Luminance and Politics Nerd . . .

What rights have trans asked for or in some cases demanded that don’t impinge on existing, hard fought female rights, meaning they would tread on others to get their rights?

In the days of living unnoticed or I wouldn’t have known, except trans, what rights did they demand that they did or didn’t get.

Still no answer to a reasonable question Luminance?
Just picking holes in what others post.

I’ve attached the post again to save you looking back.

Mollygo what relevance does that have to me? Why are you demanding I answer a question that doesn't apply to anything I have said, I have answered based on what I have said but I cannot join you in fantasy. Carlotta Transgender refers to gender dysphoria or the feeling of being in the wrong body, drag is a performance. Can trans people do drag? Yes of course but that does not make the two things the same. How is anyone supposed to have a reasonable discussion if you cannot discuss and must dictate your views? Now are we all in favour of trans people keeping the protections they are afforded against discrimination and harassment, which the court clearly stated? Or is it that there are further issues to be discussed?

How is anyone supposed to have a reasonable discussion if you cannot discuss and must dictate your views

The irony.

Carlotta, I do not agree with your views. You have yours gir your own reasons but they are not mine.
Why did you find it necessary to give a list of drag queens who are transgender?.

Also I find the term, Jock in a frock like the shows, vulgar and tacky, as with other things, each to their own.

I'm wondering if this ruling will do away with language that has to all intents and purposes, 'done away' with the use of the word woman.

Will pregnant women continue to be referred too as 'birth givers'? Will women continue to be referred too as 'people with a cervix'? and will women who breast feed continue to be referred too as 'chest feeders'?

It would be good Smileless especially as men have never been referred to as 'people with a prostate' or 'people who ejaculate'
We've been constantly told that transpeople are a tiny persecuted minority and yet so much official language was changed to avoid giving them offence while not caring that many of the majority were offended by the absurdities.

Luminance,
you talk about trans rights.
I’m simply asking what you think they are. But if you can’t answer or it’s too difficult, , that’s OK. I won’t ask again.

Imagine - you somehow missed the last 20 years, haven’t watched JKR, Julie Bindel and other well known campaigners vilified, nurses suspended for calling a male aggressive peadophile Mr as he’s in for uti treatment (different needs in biological male/female) etc etc etc

So you wake up, decide to catch up on gransnet and read through this thread. Beam me up Scottie you may well conclude

Today is a new day when life feels better because 5 high court judges confirmed what all us 70’s feminists have been criticised for saying. A woman is an adult born biologically female

Today is a new day when life feels better ...... yes it is and it does Iam .

Trans activists will still be a noisy group.

Yes it does indeed feel better Iam64 and not just for the 70’s feminists.

It is a better day, but imagine if 20 years ago someone had told us in the future you will be celebrating winning a legal case to prove men aren't women. It demonstrates what we have lost and had to fight to regain.

I read an interview with Julie Bindel who recollects much of the aggression shown to women who campaigned for women only spaces started around 2004, gaining momentum from that time given the endorsements from high profile individuals and politicians who backed trans women in their assertions around sharing women only spaces and inclusive language. With that latter point in mind, I read a while back that some younger females were not sure that the cervix was a body part that pertained to women. It's ridiculous really from an educational and on going women's health pov that there's been orchestrated ambiguity around such an important issue, particularly if that confusion could potentially lead to women thinking having cervical smear testing wouldn't apply to them. I'll always remember the tragic outcome for Jade Goody in that respect. Returning to Julie Bindel who has given over much of her life to campaigning for women in these matters whilst simultaneously threatened with rape, murder and being assaulted by a 6ft bearded man in a dress, could there be a better reason, not for her obviously, why whilst respecting the right of anyone to live their lives in the sex they identify, to not want women to capitulate to demands thar are unreasonable, misleading and potentially dangerous.