Will the Supreme Court protect Women's Rights?

Women have more rights than simple human rights, because we need them. We have reproductive rights and the right to protections based on our sex. What specifically would I ask for for trans people? Nothing more than they already have, protections against discrimination. I just feel that anyone who agrees with that would stand against the comment I addressed on the second page as unnecessary and crude. Now we can forge a way forward with clarity. Can we as women lead the way in that perhaps? Show that we do care?

The thing is as the 'be kind' brigade have been wrong at every step of the way, and have caused considerable harm, it is very difficult for women to trust those who shout be kind.

what rights did they demand that they did or didn’t get?

The right to be admitted to rape crisis centres, even when they were made aware that the natal women who attended such places were there because they had been brutalised, abused and traumatised by men and, understandably, couldn't stand to be in the presence of men.

The right to counsel, examine and interview those rape victims despite the fact that their very presence exacerbated the trauma of those women.

The right to attend women's rallies and meetings and, when denied access, to create violence and disruption in attempts to cancel them.

The right to demand to be housed in female prisons when they'd committed crimes of sexual abuse, rape and violence against women, knowing that they'd be locked up in a cell with more vulnerable women for up to 23 hours a day.

The right to share women's changing rooms.

The right to present as a woman doctor and carry out intimate examinations and, when a female patient raised any objection, the right to accuse that patient of bigotry and transphobia.

The right to accuse lesbians of transphobic bigotry when they reject your offer to have a sexual relationship with them and enjoy their "lady dick".

The right to chase a gay man out of a gay pride rally with such violence and aggression that he needed a police escort, simply because his T shirt had LGB on it instead of LGBTQ.

I’m happy about the judgement, but sad it should have had to be made, its like a court today ruling that the earth is round.

What does discrimination have to do with "being kind". Because it has nothing to do with "being unkind" it is discrimination! And also harassment of course.

So it would be really useful to know from those with more expertise like Luminance and Politics Nerd . . .

Am I missing something here?

If these two posters say they don't know the meaning of TRA, why would you assume they both have more expertise than others, Mollygo?

While you are at it would you explain TIM please?

eazybee

While you are at it would you explain TIM please?

Trans Identified Man - generally perceived as a slur used by terfs

I'm struggling with the *phase Luminance finds offensive, something about Scotsmen? Can someone enlighten me, thanks

TIM=trans identified male, used because some people thought a transwoman was a woman who was transitioning to man.

Trans identified male eazybee. It's so the word woman isn't used to describe men if you see what I mean.
We were told we were discriminatory when we said men can't be women, we were told we were discriminatory when we said no men in women's spaces, so we don't really trust any cries of discrimination anymore.

Who's been discriminated against? The women who wanted to protect their spaces? The women who face losing their careers because they address a male paedophile criminal as Mr?

Who's been harassed? The women queuing to enter women's meetings? The women rape victims in the rape crisis centres who are told to "reframe your trauma" if they felt uncomfortable with a trans woman counselling them post rape?

Allira

^So it would be really useful to know from those with more expertise like Luminance and Politics Nerd^ . . .

Am I missing something here?

If these two posters say they don't know the meaning of TRA, why would you assume they both have more expertise than others, Mollygo?

I thought she was being facetious

Thank you Old Frill, Rosie and Galaxy.I have been puzzling over that and even googled it.

I am still quite confused - can someone explain?

X was born a woman.
X undergoes procedures to make her a 'man', as she wishes.
She takes testosterone and other necessary medication and gets a deep voice , copious facial hair and has a bilateral mastectomy.
X is happy now.

X needs a pair of cords from M and S.
X selects a pair from the men's section as befits her revised status.
X needs to try them on.

X now, despite looking like Hagrid, has to try these on in the Ladies changing rooms?

Who would be comfortable with this?

Please can someone talk me through today's ruling?

Might be a good idea to campaign for mixed sex facilities alongside single sex ones then.
Are you suggesting that transmen should go in mens prisons for example, that doesn't happen for their own safety. It seems that sex does matter after all.

M&S may very well designate their changing rooms mixed sex. If not X could decide to use the male changing room or may decide to take advantage of M&S's return policy and take the cords home to try them on. Women who have objected to M&S changing room policy of use the one you prefer have been told if they are unhappy at the prospect of encountering a male in there they should try on at home.

X could order them on line and try them on in the privacy of her own home, return them if unsuitable. X could ask if there are individual cubicles. (Don't have M & S so not aware if these exist. They used to.)
This is what TopShop used to do with a man who wore women's clothes. The staff would help him with the selection; he would leave a cheque for all the clothes he chose, take them home and try them on, return those he didn't want, and make out the cheque for the amount of the clothes he wanted. Worked very well.

Luminance

Women have more rights than simple human rights, because we need them. We have reproductive rights and the right to protections based on our sex. What specifically would I ask for for trans people? Nothing more than they already have, protections against discrimination. I just feel that anyone who agrees with that would stand against the comment I addressed on the second page as unnecessary and crude. Now we can forge a way forward with clarity. Can we as women lead the way in that perhaps? Show that we do care?

So if you can’t explain the rights that trans are not getting with any clarity, how can we, as you put it, forge a way forward with clarity?

What do you want to see on this way forward that isn’t already happening?

No one on here has shown that they don’t care.
Today has been a real example of women leading the way.
Only sad that they have needed to do that in order not to be trodden on.

X need not worry. M&S's changing rooms have been single cubicle changing rooms for both men and women for a very long time.

Rosie51

M&S may very well designate their changing rooms mixed sex. If not X could decide to use the male changing room or may decide to take advantage of M&S's return policy and take the cords home to try them on. Women who have objected to M&S changing room policy of use the one you prefer have been told if they are unhappy at the prospect of encountering a male in there they should try on at home.

Rosie51
Your explanation to the limetreefairy is clear.
The M&S that if you’re not happy with the changing room provision you should try the garments on at home, would seem to fulfil the need to be truly inclusive of both females and TW.
To clarify
If you’re not happy with unisex . . . because it means you have to go somewhere where you don’t feel safe . . .
If you’re not happy with single sex . . . because it means you have to go somewhere where you don’t feel safe . . .
Try it on at home.

Yes, it’s less convenient, but it’s equally less convenient for both groups.

Thanks everyone

Haven't M&S had gender neutral changing rooms for years, with lockable doors? So X won't have a problem.
They also are putting check out desks in them to thwart shoplifters.

Mollygo your comment of "** in a frock" was caring?

Is jock offensive in your world Luminance? Or is that another thing you claim to know nothing about?

Still waiting for an answer to my questions to you, but quite happy to understand that you can’t answer.