Israel to "conquer" Gaza

Well, that's certainly true. I doubt Netanyahu would have deliberately turned a blind eye to what Hamas was up to if he had understood what they were capable of. The fact that he enabled them to become stronger is not in question, there are videos of him saying that. The question that many are asking is what the Israeli government knew prior to 7/10 and what it's response was. Ronen Bar in his affidavit certainly questions it but Netanyahu has consistently refused to have any investigation, which to my mind is rather suspicious.

Chocolatelovinggran

It's my first time posting on this thread, but any people who are not sufficiently moved by photographs of emaciated babies to allow aid in, I find very difficult to understand.
This starving infant is not launching any rockets.

This is the conclusion I am coming to on public opinion - a sense that "things have gone too far".

Another night -last night - more bombs, more dead

"At least 48 Palestinians have been killed in a series of Israeli air strikes in northern Gaza overnight, a local hospital says.

The Indonesian hospital reported that 22 children and 15 women were among the dead after a number of homes in Jabalia town and refugee camp were hit.

A video shared online appeared to show at least a dozen bodies on the floor there.

The Israeli military said it was looking into the reports. It had warned residents of Jabalia and neighbouring areas to evacuate on Tuesday night after a Palestinian armed group launched rockets into Israel.

Relevant points: the reports were made by the Indonesian run hospital, not Hamas Heath Ministry as to reliability:

The people over a large area were given virtually no time to evacuate: there are no IDF reports the hospital was hiding rocket launching facilities or Hamas agents

IDF didn't know exactly where the rockets were launched from, they are "looking into it".

When is enough, enough? The people bombed are receiving no aid. and still threatened with having to somehow move to the south by Netanyahu.

(BBC report, today, on last night)

And yes, it's true, that a number of Conservative MP's have "broken ranks" and spoken up about what is happening in Gaza. but its vague, still calling for recognition of Palestine as a State. (in a number of reports if you google).

While people are dying of hunger and in air strikes anyone who has any power does nothing. Trump is too busy chumming up with his new "good looking, tough" Syrian friend as he seems to have lost interest in Gaza.

Anniebach

Cannot find statements from Mossad , did find this

The report says the army has a decades-long “fundamental misunderstanding” of Hamas, leading senior officers to underestimate the group's capabilities and intentions. Military planners had assumed Hamas posed no significant threat to Israel and that it was uninterested in a large-scale war, according to investigators.

Anniebach Do you know what Mossad is? I doubt you'll ever find any public statements about what it does and what it knows. It's possibly the most effective secret/intelligence service in the world - public announcements would be counter-productive to what it does.

David49

Mossad

Hamas had long since disposed of anyone who they remotely suspected of being an Israeli agent, there was no internal intelligence at all

Eh? How do you know that? For all you and I know, there are still informers living in Gaza. Not only that, but the Israelis have drones and other effective surveillance equipment.

Mossad is one of three intelligence services active in Israel. They are second only to the CIA.
In response to Anniebach

David what can you tell us about MI6 or the CIA or is it just Mossad that you know so much about? Mossad reports directly and only to the Prime Minister of Israel, does that mean you are Netanyahu?????
Sorry if I'm being rather rude to you but you speak with such authority and rarely if ever support your information with a source.

Trump is snubbing Netanyahu. (CNN words)

He's busy building alliances (and making tons of money for his family and friends) with the wealthy Arab countries. His envoy Steve Witkoff is doing his best, he achieved the US hostage release, but its yielded nothing in terms of a cease fire/hostage release/return of aid for either Israel or Gaza.

This is explained better than I can possibly do in this long but very informative CNN article about politicking and changes in the whole of the Middle East as a whole. Its an eye opener.

edition.cnn.com/2025/05/13/politics/presidency-trump-qatar-israel-saudi-arabia-tariffs

I must read that.

Yes, it does seem as if the Arab countries are gaining the balance of power.

The big issue is that Israel simply won’t survive without USA support, unless it gets another powerful country willing to sell it arms.

What it may have to fall back on is diplomacy - that to my mind is the best and only way forward.

I would not want to see Israel destroyed, as it has done to Gaza. The Israelis don’t deserve that, and I would see it as an absolute failure on the wests part.

However, we are dealing with a very fickle president in Trump.

Who knows what he will say tomorrow.

I will now read the CNN report😊

foxie48

David what can you tell us about MI6 or the CIA or is it just Mossad that you know so much about? Mossad reports directly and only to the Prime Minister of Israel, does that mean you are Netanyahu?????
Sorry if I'm being rather rude to you but you speak with such authority and rarely if ever support your information with a source.

You can be a rude as you wish, if you are so naive to believe that it was all planned by Israel, there is no hope for you. It’s well known that Hamas simply killed anyone that they had the slightest suspicion of being an Israeli agent. The only intelligence was satellite and what they could see and hear from outside
Mossad is every bit as ruthless as the CIA together they did a pretty good job infiltrating Hezbollah in Lebanon.
MI6 is busy enough keeping track of terrorists in the UK

Have I at any point suggested that Israel planned this, whatever "this"is. However, your suggestion that Israel did not have intelligence in Gaza is possibly correct but probably incorrect. Israel had enough information about where leaders of Hamas were located to accurately bomb them into oblivion. Just luck? I don't think so.

David you seem to have a lot if information so what are your thoughts about why it took 7 or more hours for the Israeli forces to reach the people who will have been phoning for help from the kibbutz since dawn on 7 October. Genuine question.

May I ask who gave the time details ?

The Israeli military have admitted their failings on the day of the massacre.It was a chaotic scene with up to 3,000 hamas invading and murdering in many different sites in their defence it wasn’t a scenario for just wading in, if they had then a lot of IDF would have been killed.They ( hamas ) weren’t all wandering around in the open waiting to be shot at.
There will have to be an inquiry when the war is over with top people held to account.

Mossad did a fantastic job in Lebanon where hezbollah are concerned.The exploding communication devices, an act of genius.

It was reported at the time. In the news. On tv and radio,
I didn’t make this up.

It’s easy enough to find these things out.

Quote Oreo Wed 14-May-25 17:51:06
The Israeli military have admitted their failings on the day of the massacre.It was a chaotic scene with up to 3,000 hamas invading and murdering in many different sites in their defence it wasn’t a scenario for just wading in, if they had then a lot of IDF would have been killed.They ( hamas ) weren’t all wandering around in the open waiting to be shot at.
There will have to be an inquiry when the war is over with top people held to account.

Thank you Oreo , explains much,

David49

foxie48

David what can you tell us about MI6 or the CIA or is it just Mossad that you know so much about? Mossad reports directly and only to the Prime Minister of Israel, does that mean you are Netanyahu?????
Sorry if I'm being rather rude to you but you speak with such authority and rarely if ever support your information with a source.

You can be a rude as you wish, if you are so naive to believe that it was all planned by Israel, there is no hope for you. It’s well known that Hamas simply killed anyone that they had the slightest suspicion of being an Israeli agent. The only intelligence was satellite and what they could see and hear from outside
Mossad is every bit as ruthless as the CIA together they did a pretty good job infiltrating Hezbollah in Lebanon.
MI6 is busy enough keeping track of terrorists in the UK

I think you meam MI6😄😄

Or probably MI5

That's an interesting point foxie48.
If the Israeli surveillance teams do not have intelligence on the ground in Gaza, how do they know, and declare with such confidence, that those hospitals, schools and refugee tented areas, they persistently bomb and destroy, are genuine Hamas targets?

Anniebach, but only if you care to enlighten us, at which point do you consider information given in news reports to be 'facts'? Upthread you rejected a CNN account, and I remeber posts in which you seem to distrust the BBC. What is the 'evidence' you require, and from which source, for something to become a 'fact' and not just a 'opinion'?

David49

foxie48

David what can you tell us about MI6 or the CIA or is it just Mossad that you know so much about? Mossad reports directly and only to the Prime Minister of Israel, does that mean you are Netanyahu?????
Sorry if I'm being rather rude to you but you speak with such authority and rarely if ever support your information with a source.

You can be a rude as you wish, if you are so naive to believe that it was all planned by Israel, there is no hope for you. It’s well known that Hamas simply killed anyone that they had the slightest suspicion of being an Israeli agent. The only intelligence was satellite and what they could see and hear from outside
Mossad is every bit as ruthless as the CIA together they did a pretty good job infiltrating Hezbollah in Lebanon.
MI6 is busy enough keeping track of terrorists in the UK

Well-known by whom?

Sorry, but none of us know who else is lurking or how Mossad gets its information. That's why it's an efficient intelligence service.

Maremia

That's an interesting point foxie48.
If the Israeli surveillance teams do not have intelligence on the ground in Gaza, how do they know, and declare with such confidence, that those hospitals, schools and refugee tented areas, they persistently bomb and destroy, are genuine Hamas targets?

Good point!

Whitewavemark2

I must read that.

Yes, it does seem as if the Arab countries are gaining the balance of power.

The big issue is that Israel simply won’t survive without USA support, unless it gets another powerful country willing to sell it arms.

What it may have to fall back on is diplomacy - that to my mind is the best and only way forward.

I would not want to see Israel destroyed, as it has done to Gaza. The Israelis don’t deserve that, and I would see it as an absolute failure on the wests part.

However, we are dealing with a very fickle president in Trump.

Who knows what he will say tomorrow.

I will now read the CNN report😊

Yes, WWM, I see the current Trump political manoeuvres as a danger to Israel and I care about its survival as well as caring deeply that the people of Gaza receive aid and are not herded into a ghetto in the South. (thats why I'm trying to persuade people to read the CNN article).