Israel to Conquer Gaza part 2.

amongst the last pots there were disucssions as to the veracity of accounts, but also it was asked, did the UK recognise Palestine as a state (WWM).

The answer is no, it doesnt , although the majority of the UN do recognise it as a state.

There was mention of the shootings of the Israeli couple in the USA, and the state of aid in Gaza

Gaza has been starved of aid for so long that even with some security gangs or just desperate hordes (non Hamas) are trying or have invaded lorries.

A further complication is that many have no means for cooking, so the flour deliveries are of limited use bakeries now need security.

From BBC timeline.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c8repn0dv4xt

Water?

"Aid has started entering Gaza, including some drinking water, but fuel has not been included so far. Israel says there is no fuel shortage in Gaza.
Parents in Gaza have told the BBC that after 19 months of war, their children are now used to drinking salty water. Doctors say they’ve seen a rise in serious kidney problems because of this.
“We know it is undrinkable water, and we still drink it,” says Raed al-Zaharneh, a father-of-four in Khan Younis. “We’ve had stomach pain and diarrhoea, but we put up with it. What do we do? We need to drink. There’s no alternative.”

(Israel cut power lines to Gaza’s main desalination plants in March, saying it wanted to pressure Hamas to release its remaining hostages. Since then, the plants’ capacity have dropped significantly)

Meanwhile the bombing continues

"Israel has continued its military offensive with deadly strikes on the Jabalia refugee camp in northern Gaza, Deir al-Balah in the centre, and Khan Younis in the south.
The military says it had hit over 75 what it described as "terror targets" in the past day.

This is why we need journalists on the ground - no specifying what these "terrorist targets" are, no warnings given.

Thank you for the new thread, Wyllow. Continuing the theme of the veracity of what is reported in the media, after Netanyahu's words there can be no doubt about Israel's intention to conquer Gaza. I believe now that the intention all along was really to take territory under the guise of the hopeless task of eliminating Hamas.

Parsley3

Thank you for the new thread, Wyllow. Continuing the theme of the veracity of what is reported in the media, after Netanyahu's words there can be no doubt about Israel's intention to conquer Gaza. I believe now that the intention all along was really to take territory under the guise of the hopeless task of eliminating Hamas.

That’s exactly what I think parsley

I think that now. and that the current regime intend the same of the West Bank.
As Netanyahu's own party has in its literature - 'from the river to the sea", as well as now complete open statements from some in the War Cabinet.

I've always felt it was so wrong when Israel was recognised as a state, that Palestine was not. It was always "no mans land" in international terms and thats been exploited.

But there are voices in handout of Israel who don't believe this to be the way forward.

Thats the political bit. Right now we have an intolerable level of suffering from lack of food, clean water, medical care, no power in some areas, questionable bombing.

There is a 'diplomatic tsunami heading for Israel' After the UK, France and Canada have condemned the actions of Israel 24 other nations spoke out.
Israel is becoming more and more isolated.
This is on the BBC website. I can't do.links but maybe Wyllow would kindly post it for the full report.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxypdqnly4o

The BBC article got that title from Ha'aretz

"A headline in Israel's liberal daily Ha'aretz this week put it starkly: "Diplomatic tsunami nears," it warned, "as Europe begins to act against Israel's 'complete madness' in Gaza."

Gives POV from wide sources including Israel regime response

Thank you Wyllow.

Israeli settlers force about 150 Palestinians to leave their West Bank village www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/23/israeli-settlers-force-palestinians-leave-west-bank-village?CMP=share_btn_url
Violent Israeli settlers including two under UK sanctions have forced about 150 Palestinians to leave their village in the occupied West Bank, through a five-day intimidation campaign carried out under the watch of the Israeli police and army
Land grabbing with Israel's blessing.

Meanwhile, to call criticism of the deliberate starvation and bombing of Palestinian citizens in Gaza anti semitic or supportive of terrorism is wearing very thin indeed. How many Hamas operatives have actually been killed by Israel's actions? Is there any proof at all that this objective is being achieved?

parsley I think it goes back to your previous post. It suits the Israeli government to claim that Hamas needs to be totally eliminated.

They never will be for as long as you have an oppressed population living in an apartheid system, being violently removed from their land.

Of course it suits them as it’s absolutely true! They do need to be eliminated as a terrorist threat and also their political arm, which is in lockstep with the militia arm anyway.
I don’t know anymore than anyone else as to what will happen to the governance of Gaza for the future but wouldn’t be surprised if Israel ran it, as maybe they will have to.

Interesting Trip podcast with the son of Marwan Barghouti.

I think that he could well be the leader of the two state solution, if it ever comes to fruition. Rather like Mandela, he has been in prison for many years, but is liked and admired by the Palestinians.

He's an interesting man and his treatment bears close inspection:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_Barghouti

I wonder, Oreo.... how many Israelis would support a perpetual long term military commitment to Gaza, the numbers of IDF it would take, called up and permanently away from home.

The West Bank is a very different situation yet part of Palestine - do you support the militarised gradual occupation of it by settlers basically incorporating more and more land into Israel?

It suits the Israeli government to claim that Hamas needs to be totally eliminated.

It suits them? I would think it would suit most of the world to see Hamas totally eliminated.

Yet you phrase it to sound like the only reason Hamas needs to be eliminated is to suit Israel.

Marwan Barghouti, thanks GNs, that's a new name to me. Is it the son or the father who could be a leader for a two state solution? Will look him up.

My goodness, lots of info. Will take time later for a proper read through, but one comment caught my eye, 'The Palestinian Nelson Mandela'

Wyllow3

He's an interesting man and his treatment bears close inspection:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_Barghouti

I wonder, Oreo.... how many Israelis would support a perpetual long term military commitment to Gaza, the numbers of IDF it would take, called up and permanently away from home.

The West Bank is a very different situation yet part of Palestine - do you support the militarised gradual occupation of it by settlers basically incorporating more and more land into Israel?

I wasn’t thinking of a long military involvement tho it would have to be for a time simply for law and order and so that gangs can’t intimidate the people.Then comes administration only helped possibly by a group of Palestinian officials.
That’s all a way off yet of course.
The West Bank is a different situation and I’ve said on a couple of Israel threads, when asked, that I strongly disagree with any Israeli settlers there at all. However if it stops where the line is now it will be something.

Thank you Oreo for clarifying a POV re the West Bank.

Maybe recognising Palestine as a State would help put the brakes on this piece by piece erosion of having any existence at all. I dont know.

Perhaps if more aid gets through people won't be so desperate and gangs - whether local or Hamas - wouldn't have the power they are grabbing.
But it's not all gangs, Sometimes mobs of the desperate. The less aid gets through, the more security there has to be, and this in its turn means the current Israeli regime claims military law is necessary.

I hope there will be adequate aid in the shorter term not leaving the situation to deteriorate - unless thats part of the plan.

sigh. Having written that, was this really necessary?

"An Israeli air strike on Gaza hit the home of a doctor and killed nine of her 10 children, the hospital where she works in the city of Khan Younis says.
Nasser hospital said one of Dr Alaa al-Najjar's children and her husband were injured, but survived. Graeme Groom, a British surgeon working in the hospital, said he had operated on her surviving 11-year-old boy"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0eq9lq7xr1o

ferry23

*It suits the Israeli government to claim that Hamas needs to be totally eliminated.*

It suits them? I would think it would suit most of the world to see Hamas totally eliminated.

Yet you phrase it to sound like the only reason Hamas needs to be eliminated is to suit Israel.

No that is quite wrong. And I suspect you know exactly what was meant.

It is too sad and the killing goes on and on and on.
Someone on a previous thread invoked the ghost of Corbyn, and here he is again, presenting a bill under the 'ten minute rule' asking for an inquiry into the UK's role in the bombardment of Gaza.
Not a fan of his, but anything to make the genocide stop.

Hmm. An enquiry would have to cover many historical points and could release a great deal of both anti semitism and anti Islam hostilities.

Polarise views, and not welcome to a Jewish community who actually have different views and are vulnerable as it is.

And how would it really help right now? I think it would be better to engage in discussions about what measures the UK should/could take.

For example, should we still supply arms, do we recognise a Palestinian state, how could we best engage in encouraging cease fires etc.

I hadn’t realised that the UK doesn’t recognise Palestine as a state. Is the UK still selling arms to Israel? I think so.

Labour, on taking office, suspended 30 licences for components for arms to Israel.
Lammy said the arms would be used to violate humanitarian laws.
The UK still sends components for the 35 planes to Israel and other countries for our own safety.